Cow Weaning Efficiency 2018

[Samcowman]

Some if you may remember me posting about this last year and I have mentioned it to a couple recently so here are this years results. Much the same as last year.
Any questions about it just ask.

 

[M-J-G]

Are you targeting keeping a 500kg cow Sam?

 

[unlacedgecko]

https://onpasture.com/2018/09/03/small-cows-are-profitable-big-cows-will-bankrupt-you/

Great Judy from Missouri targets cows between 400-450kg. I wonder how such animals could be managed to produce calves for the EUROP grid?

 

[Samcowman]

Are you targeting keeping a 500kg cow Sam?

Good question. In a word no. 500 I believe is too light for this country as you will struggle to get the heifers finished within the limits. I think about 700 is the top weight of cow. Currently their is quite a range of types within the herd.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Good question. In a word no. 500 I believe is too light for this country as you will struggle to get the heifers finished within the limits. I think about 700 is the top weight of cow. Currently their is quite a range of types within the herd.

On my summer study tour most suckler farmers I visited were aiming for 600-650kg cows when bred pure.

 

[Samcowman]

Which breeds were that? Was it here or somewhere else. Around here I would says farmers generally like a ‘nice big cow’

 

[unlacedgecko]

Which breeds were that? Was it here or somewhere else. Around here I would says farmers generally like a ‘nice big cow’

Angus. The Borders and Scotland.

 

[Samcowman]

It would be interesting how many of them weigh their cows to find out where they currently are. I know some pedigree Angus cows are too big now.

 

[unlacedgecko]

It would be interesting how many of them weigh their cows to find out where they currently are. I know some pedigree Angus cows are too big now.

The two most interesting I spoke to weigh cows twice a year to keep an eye on weaning efficiency. It’s used to assist with culling decisions.

 

[Samcowman]

The two most interesting I spoke to weigh cows twice a year to keep an eye on weaning efficiency. It’s used to assist with culling decisions.

Good to hear. Culled the worst performer last year on it. There will be more this year but it’s still not at the top of the list. That space is reserved for Johnes reactors and empty cows.

 

[Samcowman]

@unlacedgecko did those farmers weighing their cows twice a year take an average of the 2 weights or just use the weaning one?

 

[Agric]

@Samcowman what condition were the cows in at weighing? Ours were weighed mid summer when the cows had all piled on condition and using those weights makes the weaning efficiency look scarily low. I’m planning to weigh again at scanning and use the average of the two.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

What do you do for twins @Samcowman ?
Average or add them, assuming you had twins.

Interesting stuff, what is your estimate of drymatter yield per acre/ ha for where you farm? Average rainfall?

 

[Samcowman]

@Samcowman what condition were the cows in at weighing? Ours were weighed mid summer when the cows had all piled on condition and using those weights makes the weaning efficiency look scarily low. I’m planning to weigh again at scanning and use the average of the two.

Last year after the wet summer they were a bit over condition this year after the dry summer they are much better apart from the heifers which struggled a bit in the dry which are a bit below where I would like them.

What do you do for twins @Samcowman ?
Average or add them, assuming you had twins.

Interesting stuff, what is your estimate of drymatter yield per acre/ ha for where you farm? Average rainfall?

Twins I just put them together because that is still the weight of calf weaned by the cow.
Average rainfall is around 600mm. I only started recording myself last February for 11months 2017 had 638. So far this year only 411.
With regards to yield per acre. Honestly I don’t really know. I took on the cattle from the old man about 10 years ago so roughly knew the stocking rate for each block from previously and have adjusted it accordingly from there. Investing in a plate meter for next summer so I will know actual growth.

 

[CharcoalWally]

@Samcowman what condition were the cows in at weighing? Ours were weighed mid summer when the cows had all piled on condition and using those weights makes the weaning efficiency look scarily low. I’m planning to weigh again at scanning and use the average of the two.

The weight of a dry cow coming to calving and the weight of a cow in peak lactation rearing a growing calf will be quite different.

You can average weights out or simply choose one fixed point at weaning and stick to that, as all cows will then be judged on a similar criteria, but even then, are all calves being weaned at the same age between Spring and Autumn calvers?

There's more to what's a good cow than just weaning %. Health, ;fertility , longevity, "straightforwardness", safety (docility ) , locomotion, blah blah blah blah blah. .......

 

[Samcowman]

The weight of a dry cow coming to calving and the weight of a cow in peak lactation rearing a growing calf will be quite different.

You can average weights out or simply choose one fixed point at weaning and stick to that, as all cows will then be judged on a similar criteria, but even then, are all calves being weaned at the same age between Spring and Autumn calvers?

There's more to what's a good cow than just weaning %. Health, ;fertility , longevity, "straightforwardness", safety (docility ) , locomotion, blah blah blah blah blah. .......

The Calves weight used is its 200day weight.
Totally agree there’s more to a good cow than cow efficiency. It isn’t even at the top of my reasons for culling as I said before fertility and johnes are higher. Also temperament and health would be higher.
The most inportant thing to change is reducing wastage. That’s cows dying on Farm, Calves dieing and cows empty before efficiency becomes important.

 

[CharcoalWally]

The Calves weight used is its 200day weight.
Totally agree there’s more to a good cow than cow efficiency. It isn’t even at the top of my reasons for culling as I said before fertility and johnes are higher. Also temperament and health would be higher.
The most inportant thing to change is reducing wastage. That’s cows dying on Farm, Calves dieing and cows empty before efficiency becomes important.

That's pretty much spot on and I would include all these points under straightforwardness.
Cows ideally will just work away without you noticing them. Calve themselves, rear it themselves, never need the vet and only routine treatment for the basics.
And get back in calf.
And give you a saleable product.
And live.
And have a good cull value.

Not too much to ask for, is it?

Easy

 

[M-J-G]

Cow A- 600kg stays lean AYR, gives birth to a 40kg calf, weans a 330kg calf at 200 days.

Cow B- 700kg, stays in good condition (which is the main reason she is heavier), has a 40kg calf and weans a 330kg calf at 200 days.

Hypothetical I know, a but assuming that the cows are of a uniform type, a cow that is heavier because she easily fleshed has to be a good thing, but will be punished on a 200 day/Cow weight type scoring system.

Also, as we have touched on before, a cow that produces a calf that is a high % of her weight at before 7 months old is highly likely to produce a heifer calf that has a greater mature size than that of the cow herself.

 

[Samcowman]

Cow A- 600kg stays lean AYR, gives birth to a 40kg calf, weans a 330kg calf at 200 days.

Cow B- 700kg, stays in good condition (which is the main reason she is heavier), has a 40kg calf and weans a 330kg calf at 200 days.

Hypothetical I know, a but assuming that the cows are of a uniform type, a cow that is heavier because she easily fleshed has to be a good thing, but will be punished on a 200 day/Cow weight type scoring system.

Also, as we have touched on before, a cow that produces a calf that is a high % of her weight at before 7 months old is highly likely to produce a heifer calf that has a greater mature size than that of the cow herself.

The cow that gets in calf as well is the better one. I think roughly 50kg is a condition score so a cow with the same frame but 2 condition scores higher is still, from my point of view, putting more into her than she should be just to keep that extra condition and would be eating more grub for that same size calf which is what feed efficiency is all about. But feed efficiency isn’t the only thing to be measuring herd performance on.
With regards to a heifer that is bigger than her dam it could be true but to regulate cow size you also need to choose your bulls carefully as they are 50% of the calves genetics.

 

[CharcoalWally]

With regards to a heifer that is bigger than her dam it could be true but to regulate cow size you also need to choose your bulls carefully as they are 50% of the calves genetics.

Therefore you may be looking for a heifer calf that has a lower %of her dams bodyweight at 200 days?