Cows or no cows

[case44]

If you are rearing that % of calves you must be doing a good job.

 

[The Jolly Farmer]

I don't think you will have much to worry about when it comes to the Scottish sub payments, they have been very generous towards your sector in the past and I don't see that changing.
They are well aware of the fact, the more one relies on the state the more likely they are to support independence.

 

[hoyboy]

If you are rearing that % of calves you must be doing a good job.

Our replacement rate has been high the last 3 years to get on top of problems. Seen a vast improvement since ditching Charollais and simi. Been quite strict about what is going back to the bull. Im not bothered about producing sale topping animals. Much rather take a bit less for them and have them calf on there own outside and go back in calf again.

 

[hoyboy]

I

I don't think you will have much to worry about when it comes to the Scottish sub payments, they have been very generous towards your sector in the past and I don't see that changing.
They are well aware of the fact, the more one relies on the state the more likely they are to support independence.

I do hope you are right. Not that the current bunch of incumbents will get any support from me Although to be fair they do have a better record of backing farming than anyone in Westminster.

At the the latest NFUS meeting they raised the point that unless England changes tack on their subsidy reductions. Scotland could be forced to follow a similar path because of anti competition rules or some such agreement. That would make sense too, it would be pretty unfair to the hill farm in Northumberland to get half of what the neighbor gets for doing the same thing. NFUS pushing for a stocking density based basic payment with a bunch of environmental add ons. It's not a bad idea in my opinion but whether Edinburgh gets the funding from Westminster will be the big question.

 

[Dave645]

I don't know how 100 cows would ever pay for a 150k tractor. Could I afford it? Probably but it wouldn't be the cows that bought it. Sure It be nice to have for a little while then once it's 6 or 7 years old it'll need tyres at £4k, maybe a £12k gearbox rebuild. Or I could change it for a new one that will be good for another 6 or 7 years I'd maybe get 75k for the old one and now the new one will now be 200k. I suppose all my old machinery doesn't cost much other than time and welding rods but it does get a bit stressful at times. I reckon if I was to replace everything I have for a brand new equivalent it'd be upwards of 1.5m worth of kit so that won't be happening. Only thing we change regularly are quad bikes.

145hp tractors are still available new at sub £75k, my guess depending on spec sub 70K, Claas 610 list out at less than 100K https://configurator.claas.com/conf...R6EqQNSBWEkFcBYGXBWYjpUBwA/hierarchy/03/s/068

the gear box is the MF one, dyna 6, and a john deer engine.

 

[upnortheast]

Get the impression your sheep / cow balance is there for a good reason ? suits the farm & what you enjoy ??

I wonder if it`s a historical family thing to do everything in house & be debt free ??

If so not always the best plan to follow the family tradition especially as you are only 33 & have another 30 + years of farming ahead of you

Machinery seems to be the problem.

2 things I would consider
I would be looking for a relible local contractor do some jobs
I would ( do ) not have a problem having a bit of debt if it meant I had more reliable kit & less hassle.

Just my thoughts

 

[Werzle]

I don't know how 100 cows would ever pay for a 150k tractor. Could I afford it? Probably but it wouldn't be the cows that bought it. Sure It be nice to have for a little while then once it's 6 or 7 years old it'll need tyres at £4k, maybe a £12k gearbox rebuild. Or I could change it for a new one that will be good for another 6 or 7 years I'd maybe get 75k for the old one and now the new one will now be 200k. I suppose all my old machinery doesn't cost much other than time and welding rods but it does get a bit stressful at times. I reckon if I was to replace everything I have for a brand new equivalent it'd be upwards of 1.5m worth of kit so that won't be happening. Only thing we change regularly are quad bikes.

Not many farms can shell out 150k on a tractor in one lump but financed over 3-5yrs on your livestock numbers and on a debt free farm its peanuts. Sfp would of covered it.

 

[Vader]

Why not look at ways of making the cows more interesting/profitable? Like specialise in producing replacement heifers for other cow farmers?

No one prepared to pay good money for breeding stock.
We had a shed full of bulling heifers.
No one would pay within £2-300 of meat price so all went to fat market.

Same with breeding cows, ppl want them less than meat price.

 

[Dave6170]

I’m assuming your on Hoy and getting contractors would be difficult?

 

[choochter]

I’m assuming your on Hoy and getting contractors would be difficult?

Thats what I was thinking!
I've only ever sailed past it on a boat but looks a challenging place to farm!

 

[hoyboy]

Not many farms can shell out 150k on a tractor in one lump but financed over 3-5yrs on your livestock numbers and on a debt free farm its peanuts. SFP would of covered it

That's my point, it's not the cows that are paying for it.

 

[Werzle]

That's my point, it's not the cows that are paying for it.

All goes in the same pot imo, even sheep farms need tractors even if only contractors ones. Loan the cows the sfp money to pay for the kit if its such a no no

 

[upnortheast]

I’m assuming your on Hoy and getting contractors would be difficult?

Hadn`t spotted the OP name was his location, Just looked it up, see what you mean

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Thing I hear most days in the office , mixed farmers getting rid of cows

 

[rmh]

What about the capital appreciation of the herd? What was a cow worth 15years ago and whats it worth today.... Maybe double the value? Its not seen as profit but the money is still there. The capital asset has increased in value. Always handy when the neighbours farm comes up for sale.

 

[czechmate]

I don't know how 100 cows would ever pay for a 150k tractor. Could I afford it? Probably but it wouldn't be the cows that bought it. Sure It be nice to have for a little while then once it's 6 or 7 years old it'll need tyres at £4k, maybe a £12k gearbox rebuild. Or I could change it for a new one that will be good for another 6 or 7 years I'd maybe get 75k for the old one and now the new one will now be 200k. I suppose all my old machinery doesn't cost much other than time and welding rods but it does get a bit stressful at times. I reckon if I was to replace everything I have for a brand new equivalent it'd be upwards of 1.5m worth of kit so that won't be happening. Only thing we change regularly are quad bikes.

do old tractors wear tyres less than new ones?

 

[hendrebc]

Do you know why your cows are costing so much to keep?
Here it was long winters inside for the cows and cake for finishing the stores they produced. Much improved grazing management to reduce the winter housing period, change to native bred cows that can spend more time outdoors without getting thin and the native bred stores can finish on grass or at least a lot less cake than the almost pure continentals we had before.
Making a decent margin per cow now mostly from just finding ways to stop spending on them. I was ready to get rid of them 10 years ago glad I haven't now.
I do accept that what I've done won't work on every farm though but there is probably a way around somehow especially if you keep asking yourself some difficult questions and are ready to change what and how your doing things. How I keep cattle now is very different to how we did no that long ago but we still have suckler cows and sell finished cattle (thanks to TB )

 

[Netherfield]

What about the capital appreciation of the herd? What was a cow worth 15years ago and whats it worth today.... Maybe double the value? Its not seen as profit but the money is still there. The capital asset has increased in value. Always handy when the neighbours farm comes up for sale.

About the same

 

[Enry]

Run less sheep, get more cows. Sheep will crash once all these regenerative arable farmers invite sheep in rent free. Cows will save the planet and will attract more eco payments. Beef tastes better.

I was thinking this the other day - where will upland sheep be when all the regen arable and lowland farms see their role to graze a range of cover crops etc

 

[LandcruiserLad]

There could be an announcement on future support in Scotland during the Highland show? There often is announcement of some sort to keep voters interested.

It’s hard to make cattle pay without subsidy cash.
its hard to farm with Net Zero carbon.
It’s hard to farm with input prices so high.

dunno what to advise you. .. wait for the subsidy details?