Creative destruction.

Clever Dic

Member
Location
Melton
Just been re reading a couple of books and one event was used in a both but led to better things and that was destruction . In the natural world there were 5 great extinctions but what followed was a burst of new diverse and vibrant life that filled the earth with more advanced life forms.
The same with industry , the steam engine , flying shuttle and trains put many small and large industries on the scrap heap and people lost jobs in sectors but what followed was the industrial revolution. Where countries protected these old industries because of the unrest it would cause they swiftly got left behind as they were not productive enough.
So will Brexit and a big change in farm support see a similar creative destruction.?
 

MickMoor

Member
Location
Bonsall, UK
I hope so! I meet a lot of farmers, and there are basically two approaches.There are those who see a new opportunity at every turn of events, or the alternative, struggling to keep up with the pace of change. Politicians and other opinionated people are the same; remainers are so frightened of something new that they cling desperately to the old, whereas others who embrace the opprtunity that Brexit offers. Incidentally, I am probably too old to see the final outcome of Brexit, particularly if we carry on negotiations by giving in to the Eu and placating those frightened of change.
 

db9go

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Buckinghamshire
I hope so! I meet a lot of farmers, and there are basically two approaches.There are those who see a new opportunity at every turn of events, or the alternative, struggling to keep up with the pace of change. Politicians and other opinionated people are the same; remainers are so frightened of something new that they cling desperately to the old, whereas others who embrace the opprtunity that Brexit offers. Incidentally, I am probably too old to see the final outcome of Brexit, particularly if we carry on negotiations by giving in to the Eu and placating those frightened of change.
Top answer
 

jellybean

Member
Location
N.Devon
Creative destruction is a great title, I think it describes very well the process we are going through and probably always have done although it seems to fit the current scenario perfectly. Brexit is the ultimate expression of this but obviously I don't want this to be a Brexit orientated topic.

Thoughts and beliefs are powerful, very powerful. If you look at a situation that is giving you problems and examine all your thoughts about that situation you may find that you are holding a belief that no longer serves you. As with anything that no longer serves you we get rid of it and make way for a new and better belief.

I don't think we always need to know what will take the place of the thing or idea that we are ditching. The very fact that we are dumping it makes a space for the new. If our intention is for good that is what we will get. The same as @db9go I am probably too old to see all the benefits of regaining our freedom from the EU
but that doesn't mean I cannot participate in the mental process of change for the better in all things.
 

homefarm

Member
Location
N.West
Glyphosate ban could be another example.
It will drive innovation and research into methods to farm without it.
Both world wars where the same, airfields were created in weeks but now no one want to pass even an extra runway.
So yes I agree creative destruction does work but there will be casualties and casualties seem to be unacceptable in todays world.
Is that is not the reason for the glyphosate ban? Not even that there are casualties just that there may be in the future.
It even extends to animals. How much is spent on protecting the great crested newt.
 
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Deereone

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Dorset
Creative destruction, yes, a great plan. Let's go the whole hog and destroy the cities and all that live in them and turn the clock back to a peaceful rural subsistence. As it stands, the tail is wagging the dog. We don't produce food and offer it for sale at a fair price, we are told how much to produce and what we will be paid for it. The revolution we need is to curtail the powers of the supermarkets. This would not need to make the end product dearer; just redress the balance on who gets the lions share of the profit.
 

joe soapy

Member
Location
devon
We have creative destruction going on all the time, Small farms have all but dissappeared to be swallowed up by the bigger ones, leaving a few small "niche" farms filling in the gaps.
This is what we often complain about is/has happening with supermarkets and small shops. The loss of the shops has created a fertile place for a new type of retail shopping, "on line"
Food production may be facing strong competition from "food Factories" that are immune from the weather and take up little room. It could happen quite quickly, Mega cities will be too vulnerable to food supply not to have control of their food supply
 

DRC

Member
Change isn’t always a good thing, if fact it’s often very destructive for a lot of people .
Whole communities and industries destroyed in the name of progress . People had decent jobs in industry, but now work in crappy call centres all day .
Our village had six farms all employing a few men, now it’s got a horrible housing estate with people that hardly know each other .
And if you take the Brexit thing, then go back to when we joined the EU, that was presumably seen as a change for the better at the time, and to be honest has kept the peace in Europe .
There’s a very good saying, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
What will Brexit do now, other than drive more of us off the land as we all end up being swallowed up by the so called inivators, not saying it’s all perfect, but I can’t see that change is good thing.
 

rob1

Member
Location
wiltshire
Change isn’t always a good thing, if fact it’s often very destructive for a lot of people .
Whole communities and industries destroyed in the name of progress . People had decent jobs in industry, but now work in crappy call centres all day .
Our village had six farms all employing a few men, now it’s got a horrible housing estate with people that hardly know each other .
And if you take the Brexit thing, then go back to when we joined the EU, that was presumably seen as a change for the better at the time, and to be honest has kept the peace in Europe .
There’s a very good saying, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
What will Brexit do now, other than drive more of us off the land as we all end up being swallowed up by the so called inivators, not saying it’s all perfect, but I can’t see that change is good thing.
I can see where you are coming from but the industry in this country often failed because it was run by old farts sitting on their laurels, it was easy for the japenese to wipe it out, but look at our car industry now, world quality, as for housing people have to live somewhere, not sure that the EU can be held responsible for keeping the peace in europe,it has only been going since 93,before that we had the eec and common market trading relationship,it seems to me there had been more discontent since the eu was formed, and as for more been driven off the land by innovators surely that is progress by definition,ifnothing changed we wouldstill be living in cave and chucking spears at each other. The change you describe may well be not good for some farmers but that is a whole different argument
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
Change isn’t always a good thing, if fact it’s often very destructive for a lot of people .
Whole communities and industries destroyed in the name of progress . People had decent jobs in industry, but now work in crappy call centres all day .
Our village had six farms all employing a few men, now it’s got a horrible housing estate with people that hardly know each other .
And if you take the Brexit thing, then go back to when we joined the EU, that was presumably seen as a change for the better at the time, and to be honest has kept the peace in Europe .
There’s a very good saying, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
What will Brexit do now, other than drive more of us off the land as we all end up being swallowed up by the so called inivators, not saying it’s all perfect, but I can’t see that change is good thing.
Yes and i would add that the Beeching cuts were /are another example.
 

czechmate

Member
Mixed Farmer
Dinosaurs were here a LOT longer than we have been. Crikey, they even managed to make trees, well trees. But now they are not.
I give the human race c100 years on this planet now, (felt no joy at all to become a grandad frankly as I am sure they will see hell), so imho these bits of human political tinkering are a complete irrelevance in the bigger picture
 

Clever Dic

Member
Location
Melton
What books were they?
Why Nations Fail by Daron Acemoglu and James Robinson regarding industrial creative destruction and the evolutionary angle surmised in the chapter Goodbye to all that in Bill Brysons great book short history of everything.
Also it is talked about in Ian Morris's book
War ( what is it good for ) The role of conflict in civilisation. Interesting read as well.
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
I don't think the outlook is a bleak as some on here. There will certainly need to be a lot more pragmatic thinking from now on, necessity and 'common sense*' will make it happen. Make ourselves less reliant on imported food and energy and we'll have made the most important step. That doesn't mean we stop importing, it does mean that we don't have to import.

* meaning the nation's collective sense
 

MickMoor

Member
Location
Bonsall, UK
Coincidentally,I am reading ,"The Age of Kali".
Kali of course is the Hindu god of destruction. The introduction quotes the seventh century Vishnu Purana:
"The kings of the Age of Kali will be addicted to corruption and will seize the property of their subjects, but will, for the most part, be of limited power, rising and falling rapidly. Then property and wealth alone will confer rank; falsehood will be the only means of success in litigation. Corruption will be the universal means of subsistence. At the end, unable to support their avaricious kings, the people of the Kali Age will take refuge in the chasms between mountains, they will wear ragged garments and have too many children. Thus in the Kali Age, shall strife and decay constantly proceed, until the human race appraoches annihilation."
Any comments?
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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