Critical Mass

[ollie989898]

With the withdrawal of public money many will have no choice. On the surface it will be a subtle change, they won't sell if they are owner occupiers, rather they will throw the gates in the hedge and let the 'last man standing' in the parish ranch it. So what ? Well, the thread is about critical mass. That's what.

As I have said before, with the international agricultural markets as they are today, it is time to bin off deathra and their schemes. As at least one forum member has highlighted, the ministry can't be trusted not to change their tune and the money is fools gold anyway. Diversify, streamline or rent it all out, whatever. I'd do anything to avoid being behest to the government for anything as the political winds will change no doubt.

 

[Hampton]

Took on a young lad last year. He’s been great, but we’ve taught him how to look after, feed and handle cattle (limmies and blues), how to plough, fert spin, drill, shakerate, etc etc. I’ve taken him crop walking with me and taught him weeds and diseases etc.
He is off to pastures new next week as he has got a job filming other farmers working for the Grassmen.

you can pass on what you want, but it doesn’t mean they’ll stay

 

[delilah]

As I have said before, with the international agricultural markets as they are today, it is time to bin off deathra and their schemes. As at least one forum member has highlighted, the ministry can't be trusted not to change their tune and the money is fools gold anyway. Diversify, streamline or rent it all out, whatever. I'd do anything to avoid being behest to the government for anything as the political winds will change no doubt.

You want to come and tell one of our chaps that they are out of a job because the money that pays their wages is going to the RSPB to spaff it on a load of shiny kit, you be my guest.

 

[ollie989898]

You want to come and tell one of our chaps that they are out of a job because the money that pays their wages is going to the RSPB to spaff it on a load of shiny kit, you be my guest.

Whoever tells anyone anything is irrelevant. Neither you nor I formulated this policy, we just have to live with it. The fact remains that the bulk of the money deathra are going to hand out will be in the hands of the national trust or RSPB, I would put money on it. They will reduce the total sum given to landowners drastically as the government don't want to pay it out anyway. It is what it is.

There are probably jobs going as rangers and the like with various organisations if you want money to play conservationist rather than farmer.

 

[delilah]

Neither you nor I formulated this policy, we just have to live with it.

Bollox to that. I'm not living with it, i'm getting it changed.

 

[ollie989898]

Bollox to that. I'm not living with it, i'm getting it changed.

You're wasting your breath I'm afraid.

 

[farmerm]

Best you all give up now then if you are convinced that is what the future holds for UK agriculture?

With the tearing down of remaining trade barriers we are now exposed to global market volatility like never before. It wont all be bad but it will be a rollercoaster.

 

[ollie989898]

With the tearing down of remaining trade barriers we are now exposed to global market volatility like never before. It wont all be bad but it will be a rollercoaster.

I can't see any trade barriers ever presented anyone with a barrier of any sort. UK can import fruit/veg or other commodities from around the world with ease.

 

[toquark]

If you spend your working life chasing grant money, you can't really complain if the plug is pulled or you're forced to pick up dog sh!t for a living. He who pays the piper calls the tune.

The bigger issue is farm profitability. Subs just delay the inevitable. We'd be far better focusing on how to get control of our markets back and increase profit margins that way instead of frantically begging the taxpayer for another handout.

Let the RSPB spaff the money on bird hides and litter bins, I don't care.

 

[ollie989898]

If you spend your working life chasing grant money, you can't really complain if the plug is pulled or you're forced to pick up dog sh!t for a living. He who pays the piper calls the tune.

The bigger issue is farm profitability. Subs just delay off the inevitable. We'd be far better focusing on how to get control of our markets back and increase profit margins that way instead of frantically begging the taxpayer for another handout.

Let the RSPB spaff the money on bird hides and litter bins, I don't care.

Just think, farming with none of the constraints imposed by deathra, no threat of losing a percentage of your SFP. Farm how you want and without a care for their hair brained schemes. Bliss.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

If you spend your working life chasing grant money, you can't really complain if the plug is pulled or you're forced to pick up dog sh!t for a living. He who pays the piper calls the tune.

The bigger issue is farm profitability. Subs just delay the inevitable. We'd be far better focusing on how to get control of our markets back and increase profit margins that way instead of frantically begging the taxpayer for another handout.

Let the RSPB spaff the money on bird hides and litter bins, I don't care.

You should care because I'm not sure anyone really understands how quickly the critical mass of agriculture will be undermined and how widespread the reverberations will be.
The fact that government policy has given UK agriculture probably the highest COP in the world, is disguised by an industry that has actually become very efficient and accepts low [or even non-existent] profit margins.
Loss of critical mass will severely disrupt that efficiency and drive costs higher accentuating price differentials and putting even more out of business.
Meanwhile, Defra will say how many £billions they are using to support farmers when it has all been spent by the RSPB on those bird hides[ with disabled access and a toilet for every gender and none obviously]
The current outlook is simple.
The price of food is going to escalate fast or UK ag is going to hit the buffers.
What do you think the government is going to let happen?

 

[farmerm]

Just think, farming with none of the constraints imposed by deathra, no threat of losing a percentage of your SFP. Farm how you want and without a care for their hair brained schemes. Bliss.

On what planet? More constraints will continue to be imposed on farming not less!! Every other industry is made to comply with regulations by means other that the threat of withholding a grant payments... it is nonsense to believe that enforcing legislative compliance on agricultural businesses can only be done though threats of SFP deductions.

 

[ollie989898]

On what planet? More constraints will continue to be imposed on farming not less!! Every other industry is made to comply with regulations by means other that the threat of withholding a grant payments... it is nonsense to believe that enforcing legislative compliance on agricultural businesses can only be done though threats of SFP deductions.

How will they enforce it and with what funds?

 

[toquark]

On what planet? More constraints will continue to be imposed on farming not less!! Every other industry is made to comply with regulations by means other that the threat of withholding a grant payments... it is nonsense to believe that enforcing legislative compliance on agricultural businesses can only be done though threats of SFP deductions.

Our platform for opposing and influencing such restrictions is seriously undermined by simultaneously relying on public subsidy though. Most regulation ultimately comes from government, who also lay on the sub. Pre Brexit we could hide behind the militant French but not anymore.

You’ll be surprised at how much freedom you can gain from leaving the system behind.

Also, just what can they do anyway? Take you to court for moving a fence line?

 

[ollie989898]

Our platform for opposing and influencing such restrictions is seriously undermined by simultaneously relying on public subsidy though. Most regulation ultimately comes from government, who also lay on the sub. Pre Brexit we could hide behind the militant French but not anymore.

You’ll be surprised at how much freedom you can gain from leaving the system behind.

Also, just what can they do anyway? Take you to court for moving a fence line?

They can't enforce the rules as they are now, they have no hope of trying when the subsidy is gone. And even people trying to work within the rules get fudged later on as one forum member well tell you!

 

[farmerm]

They can't enforce the rules as they are now, they have no hope of trying when the subsidy is gone. And even people trying to work within the rules get fudged later on as one forum member well tell you!

How many farmers do you know of who have had their SFP withheld because of a breach in compliance? Personally I know of none but I am aware of plenty who have been issued fines for breaching Health and Safety, Employment, Envionmental, Food Hygiene and Highway regulations!! Tell me, what are these rules that farmers have only been complying with due to the perceived threat of having our SFP withheld? What are the top 5 rules that farmers are going to stop complying with in this free for all you imagine?

 

[Jackov Altraids]

On what planet? More constraints will continue to be imposed on farming not less!! Every other industry is made to comply with regulations by means other that the threat of withholding a grant payments... it is nonsense to believe that enforcing legislative compliance on agricultural businesses can only be done though threats of SFP deductions.

But we already have all that legislative compliance enforcement.
Vosa and trading standards are at markets.
There are inspectors at abattoirs.
We get HSE inspections.
The general public are inspecting us all the time.

But ultimately, more than almost any other industry, we take full responsibility for our produce which is completely traceable.

And it doesn't matter if we pass EA, HSE or any other inspection, we are still completely responsible for any incident that may occur. Why pay insurance for zero cover.

 

[ollie989898]

How many farmers do you know of who have had their SFP withheld because of a breach in compliance? Personally I know of none but I am aware of plenty who have been issued fines for breaching Health and Safety, Employment, Envionmental, Food Hygiene and Highway regulations!! Tell me, what are these rules that farmers have only been complying with due to the perceived threat of having our SFP withheld? What are the top 5 rules that farmers are going to stop complying with in this free for all you imagine?

The rules you list are common to all businesses and places of work. Such is life, and to be honest, if you are breaching employment/food hygiene/health and safety laws etc then I have little or no sympathy for folk. What the industry does not need, is self-imposed regulations dreamt up by morons in deathra.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

How many farmers do you know of who have had their SFP withheld because of a breach in compliance? Personally I know of none but I am aware of plenty who have been issued fines for breaching Health and Safety, Employment, Envionmental, Food Hygiene and Highway regulations!! Tell me, what are these rules that farmers have only been complying with due to the perceived threat of having our SFP withheld? What are the top 5 rules that farmers are going to stop complying with in this free for all you imagine?

Fines for breaches of regulations are usually in the public domain, withheld BPS is not.
I know a few farmers who didn't realise they had had BPS withheld because they had never been told explicitly, but on closer examination saw a deduction on the very unclear final statement.
I would imagine GAEC rules will be largely ignored with no threat of payments being affected.
In all honesty, this will have little or no affect on the environment because good environment practice is generally good for farmers it's just the stupid and ill-conceived elements that will be shown the contempt they deserve.

Interesting figures on cross compliance inspection;

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/645011/Cross_Compliance_inspection_failures_in_2015.pdf

 

[JP1]

If you spend your working life chasing grant money, you can't really complain if the plug is pulled or you're forced to pick up dog sh!t for a living. He who pays the piper calls the tune.

The bigger issue is farm profitability. Subs just delay the inevitable. We'd be far better focusing on how to get control of our markets back and increase profit margins that way instead of frantically begging the taxpayer for another handout.

Let the RSPB spaff the money on bird hides and litter bins, I don't care.

Maybe I should become a cattle contractor with decent mobile handling kit for the likes of them and do fencing work for them in the Winter