Criticising the Prophet Mohammed is now illegal.

[Danllan]

I’m not sure where you’ve got your ideas of God from, but the one you describe is not the God of the bible.

What is natural justice?

Apologies for a slow reply, distracted by the obvious, and work...

Natural justice is that which we - humanity - inherently, instinctively feel to be right; apply 'the golden rule' and you'll generally be spot on.

You and @alex04w must have different gods and different bible then. I disagree with @alex04w in these matters, but I recognise his accuracy in quoting the texts very well and his personal integrity in not trying to dissemble in matters of his faith.

Your god gave the rules in the bible didn't he? How much should I sell my little girl for? (Exodus 21:7). My wife worked last Sunday so, because of Exodus 35:2, I must have her put to death, will you do this or nominate someone else? Other fun rules spouting from and approved by your god include us stoning any naughty farmers who grow different crops next to each other and burning people who wear clothes made of two different threads... there are dozens, maybe hundreds more example like these well known ones. They are all primitive, barbaric, irrational and part of your religion.

 

[Macsky]

These seemingly strange laws were specific to the people of Israel at a specific time, and when studied in that context can be seen to be entirely for their benefit.

Nowhere are Christians required to live by these laws, other religions are still based on salvation by works, but the Christian faith is exactly that, salvation by faith.

Ephesians 2:8-9 New International Version (NIV)

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Also worth reading the whole of Hebrews 11.

 

[Danllan]

These seemingly strange laws were specific to the people of Israel at a specific time, and when studied in that context can be seen to be entirely for their benefit.

Nowhere are Christians required to live by these laws, other religions are still based on salvation by works, but the Christian faith is exactly that, salvation by faith.

Ephesians 2:8-9 New International Version (NIV)

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Also worth reading the whole of Hebrews 11.

You have tried to justify those barbarisms. You have not at any point denied your god's guilt, because you can't. Quick question: to be 'God', would an entity have to be perfect, infallible, omniscient and omnipotent?

 

[Macsky]

What guilt??

 

[jendan]

Apologies for a slow reply, distracted by the obvious, and work...

Natural justice is that which we - humanity - inherently, instinctively feel to be right; apply 'the golden rule' and you'll generally be spot on.

You and @alex04w must have different gods and different bible then. I disagree with @alex04w in these matters, but I recognise his accuracy in quoting the texts very well and his personal integrity in not trying to dissemble in matters of his faith.

Your god gave the rules in the bible didn't he? How much should I sell my little girl for? (Exodus 21:7). My wife worked last Sunday so, because of Exodus 35:2, I must have her put to death, will you do this or nominate someone else? Other fun rules spouting from and approved by your god include us stoning any naughty farmers who grow different crops next to each other and burning people who wear clothes made of two different threads... there are dozens, maybe hundreds more example like these well known ones. They are all primitive, barbaric, irrational and part of your religion.

The Bible is in two parts,one distinctly different from the other...BC and AD,as you know full well,but you quote of the barbarisms in the old.Equally,you will know that everything about everything is written in it,you just have to be clever enough to look and read and understand it.We have our own free will in everything we do.We make our mistakes,and hopefully learn from them.Sometimes we make the same mistakes over and over again before we learn.We have to learn it ourselves,usually the hard way.It could not be any other way.Otherwise we would be like robots,or living in a "brave new world","shiny happy people",with women like the Stepford wives.It would hardly work would it?

 

[The Agrarian]

My good fellows macsky and alexo4w very likely will not agree with me in this, and for that I treat their right to those views with utmost respect. I see the Bible, and particularly the old testament, as Chronicles of the Jewish oral traditions that we're formed over a long period of time. These traditions describe a people slowly developing their understanding of who and what God is. Was their understanding perfect? Of course not. Was it subject to human frailty? Surely. After all, they were people of their time. As are we. Someone like you will firmly appreciate how vital context is when looking at this. It is often thought that the independent development of ancient religions is a demonstration of a 'God-shaped' void in humanity, for which they set about searching how to define.

We just have to look at the utter corruption of Jewish leadership in the New Testament to see that could and would, both accidentally and deliberately, make things wrong. As I've said before, Jesus pulled them up very firmly on numerous things. Isaiah talked about

'They know nothing, they understand nothing; their eyes are plastered over so they cannot see, and their minds closed so they cannot understand.'

John notes that 'He came to his own, but His own did not know Him.'

The teachings of Jesus the man, and God on Earth, if they are not misrepresented, can be held up to scrutiny today, and frankly come out looking very well, and something the world would be a better place for adhering to. A standard so noble and good, by which the very best of us fail every day to live. Which is why it's a much better solution than living by your golden rules. Should I live by yours, or the woman next door, or the minister in church? None, I'm afraid, because they'd all be different.

Most importantly, Christians acutely understand (well they certainly should) their own fallibility. Our morals cannot be trusted, because of our selfish hearts. Yours can't - you are a pompous think you know it all , and I'm, well, blind and stupid. We just will not reliably act in the best interest of those around us.

Is the work of understanding God finished? I believe not. We are only people of our time. Science, the practical process of understanding the nuts and bolts of our universe, has far to go. Humankind is still on a marvellous journey of discovery, as are we in each of our personal lives. Perhaps I can urge you to take off the know everything glasses, and humble yourself a bit. Your words and understandings will be ridiculed in the future as dim and prehistoric!
.

 

[alex04w]

Apologies for a slow reply, distracted by the obvious, and work...

Natural justice is that which we - humanity - inherently, instinctively feel to be right; apply 'the golden rule' and you'll generally be spot on.

You and @alex04w must have different gods and different bible then. I disagree with @alex04w in these matters, but I recognise his accuracy in quoting the texts very well and his personal integrity in not trying to dissemble in matters of his faith.

Your god gave the rules in the bible didn't he? How much should I sell my little girl for? (Exodus 21:7). My wife worked last Sunday so, because of Exodus 35:2, I must have her put to death, will you do this or nominate someone else? Other fun rules spouting from and approved by your god include us stoning any naughty farmers who grow different crops next to each other and burning people who wear clothes made of two different threads... there are dozens, maybe hundreds more example like these well known ones. They are all primitive, barbaric, irrational and part of your religion.

I want to address your queries of such things as wearing clothes of mixed thread. This is an issue raised frequently.

In the Old Testament, there is the Ceremonial Law (things like mixed threads) and the Moral Law (the ten commandments).

The Ceremonial Law was there to teach about and point forward to Christ. This is why mixed threads were not allowed. Linen (which the priests wore) spoke of righteousness and pointed to the righteousness of Christ. Righteousness could not be mixed with unrighteousness and still be acceptable. Likewise Christ cannot be diluted with anything else. (Hence one of the five great cries of the reformation - salvation is by 'Christ alone'. Therefore under the Ceremonial Law linen could not be mixed with something else.

However, in Matthew 5 v 17 Christ said he came not to destroy the law, but to fulfil it. As the Ceremonial Law has now been fulfilled, it no longer applies.

The Moral Law, the ten commandments, still remain. There are some sects who believe that even the moral law was also abolished, but that makes a nonsense / mockery of the New Testament.

 

[Forfar 1]

What is the golden rule?

 

[jendan]

What is the golden rule?

Dont boff your wifes sister.

 

[Forfar 1]

She don’t have one

 

[Danllan]

The Bible is in two parts,one distinctly different from the other...BC and AD,as you know full well,but you quote of the barbarisms in the old...

That's an old one, excusing half your Bible. Alright, would you care to try and justify some of the 'new' bits?

I want to address your queries of such things as wearing clothes of mixed thread. This is an issue raised frequently.

In the Old Testament, there is the Ceremonial Law (things like mixed threads) and the Moral Law (the ten commandments).

The Ceremonial Law was there to teach about and point forward to Christ. This is why mixed threads were not allowed. Linen (which the priests wore) spoke of righteousness and pointed to the righteousness of Christ. Righteousness could not be mixed with unrighteousness and still be acceptable. Likewise Christ cannot be diluted with anything else. (Hence one of the five great cries of the reformation - salvation is by 'Christ alone'. Therefore under the Ceremonial Law linen could not be mixed with something else.

However, in Matthew 5 v 17 Christ said he came not to destroy the law, but to fulfil it. As the Ceremonial Law has now been fulfilled, it no longer applies.

The Moral Law, the ten commandments, still remain. There are some sects who believe that even the moral law was also abolished, but that makes a nonsense / mockery of the New Testament.

Is that the best you can do? No mention of the burning, selling and stoning? Let's clear those up and then move on to some of the other awful things your god(s) prescribe.

What is the golden rule?

Treat others as you would be treated.

 

[Forfar 1]

Who made that rule?

 

[jendan]

That's an old one, excusing half your Bible. Alright, would you care to try and justify some of the 'new' bits?



Is that the best you can do? No mention of the burning, selling and stoning? Let's clear those up and then move on to some of the other awful things your god(s) prescribe.





Treat others as you would be treated.

Hows your mate in the cabinet getting on? Thats if they are still in it.

 

[Danllan]

Hows your mate in the cabinet getting on? Thats if they are still in it.

I'll not say if they are still in or out; but, I have heard nothing from them for a couple of weeks; not too unusual, we only correspond a few times in any given month. Perhaps something is distracting them...

 

[ollie989898]

Sharia Law involves physical, financial and intellectual punishment.

You are obviously ignoring the fact that about 1+ Billion Muslims abide by Sharis courts throughout the world .. they have no ability to dominate UK law for everyone else YET but that is just a matter of numbers.

There is no parrallel with the FA .. when was the last time you saw a football player having his hand chopped off or a player stoned for sleeping with someone else or a player having his genitals mutilated ? You might have an argument if the FA in some other country .. or even some other organisation even .. did kill, maim and destroy .. but they don't.

Ignoring Islamic politics and law in the rest of the world is not justification for implementing the foundations of Islamic law within the UK.

Sharia courts do not hand out punishments of that nature, to do so would be extremely illegal under UK law, to say the least.

Even in actual Islamic countries, not all of them adhere to such extremist interpretations of Islam.

It parallels similarly ridiculous extremist forms of Christianity and Judaism, you will recall that similarly barbaric punishments are mentioned in the Bible as well yet I have never yet seen a stoning or hanging in all the times I have been to Church.

 

[jendan]

I'll not say if they are still in or out; but, I have heard nothing from them for a couple of weeks; not too unusual, we only correspond a few times in any given month. Perhaps something is distracting them...

I think ive cracked it..............but mums the word

 

[Danllan]

I think ive cracked it..............but mums the word

You might think that, you might very well think that, I couldn't possibly comment...'

 

[alex04w]

Is that the best you can do? No mention of the burning, selling and stoning? Let's clear those up and then move on to some of the other awful things your god(s) prescribe.

I havnt been avoiding you, just been busy. You ask about two subjects - slavery and the death penalty.

When Israel entered the promised land, each of the twelve tribes was allotted their portion. However, it went further than that - each family was allotted its portion. This was a perpetual ownership. It taught that when someone comes to salvation and enters the promised land of heaven, their possession is perpetual. Christ said that he would lose none (John 6v39).

If an Israelite family got into debt, then they could 'sell' their land. However, it was not lost to them forever - only until the year of Jubilee which was every 50 years. In the year of Jubilee all land returned to the original family that was allotted it and owned it. This teaches that by our actions (sin) after salvation we can loose fellowship with Christ, but never our place in the promises land / heaven (Ephesians 4 v 30).

If after 'selling' their land there was still a debt, then they could sell themselves into slavery. Again this was not a perpetual slavery - it was only for seven years. In the seventh year they could go out free. They could also opt to remain a slave out of love for their master - that was their decision, not someone elses.

Where someone was sold as a slave for profit and not to settle a debt, it was plainly called evil (Genesis 50 v 20). Therefore slavery as practiced in the 1700s and 1800s was wrong and that is why Christians (e.g. William Wilberforce) opposed it and had it abolished.

The death penalty taught a very simple lesson - the wages of sin is death (as Romans 6 v 23 puts it). This is both a temporal and a spiritual death.

You can argue about the mode of the death penalty applied, but lethal injection did not exist at that time!

Why do you think liberals rail against the death penalty so much - because they cannot accept God's existence or standards in anything. The liberal has to believe that they are not answerable to anyone or anything but their own views.

It always pay to quote Romans 6v23 in full - the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Acts 3 v 19 - repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out.

 

[Danllan]

I havnt been avoiding you, just been busy. You ask about two subjects - slavery and the death penalty.

When Israel entered the promised land, each of the twelve tribes was allotted their portion. However, it went further than that - each family was allotted its portion. This was a perpetual ownership. It taught that when someone comes to salvation and enters the promised land of heaven, their possession is perpetual. Christ said that he would lose none (John 6v39).

If an Israelite family got into debt, then they could 'sell' their land. However, it was not lost to them forever - only until the year of Jubilee which was every 50 years. In the year of Jubilee all land returned to the original family that was allotted it and owned it. This teaches that by our actions (sin) after salvation we can loose fellowship with Christ, but never our place in the promises land / heaven (Ephesians 4 v 30).

If after 'selling' their land there was still a debt, then they could sell themselves into slavery. Again this was not a perpetual slavery - it was only for seven years. In the seventh year they could go out free. They could also opt to remain a slave out of love for their master - that was their decision, not someone elses.

Where someone was sold as a slave for profit and not to settle a debt, it was plainly called evil (Genesis 50 v 20). Therefore slavery as practiced in the 1700s and 1800s was wrong and that is why Christians (e.g. William Wilberforce) opposed it and had it abolished.

The death penalty taught a very simple lesson - the wages of sin is death (as Romans 6 v 23 puts it). This is both a temporal and a spiritual death.

You can argue about the mode of the death penalty applied, but lethal injection did not exist at that time!

Why do you think liberals rail against the death penalty so much - because they cannot accept God's existence or standards in anything. The liberal has to believe that they are not answerable to anyone or anything but their own views.

It always pay to quote Romans 6v23 in full - the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Acts 3 v 19 - repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out.

I hadn't noticed - not being rude, the brats are ill at home and Mrs Danllan at work... it's a living hell I tell you! Purgatory for an unbeliever? Not fair... I'll get back to the fun this evening...

 

[The Agrarian]

Purgatory? You're asking the wrong people about that one. We don't do purgatory.