Crow invasion

[suffolksmallholder]

I dont enjoy killing anything except rats, not even owned a gun for 17 years and only had that to drive rooks of the barley, never been on a shoot in my life although quite often have a few pheasants given to me, we have at least a dozen deer on a 70 acre part of the farm and ignore any damage they do. I saw five fawns in one 7 acre field last month when mowing, I had to cut it in several odd bits to ensure I didnt kill any, We try and encourage as much wildlife as we can, we dug a pond about 30 years ago and it teems with bird life when we remove predators.

I have no guns at all, sold the lot more then ten years ago. Don't miss them at all.
Ah. I do have a 1913 BSA .177 air rifle that my Great Grandgather gave to me when I was 13 years old. I lost it for a long time but when sorting out my workshop re-discovered it in its slip. Oh joy!
SS

 

[Kevtherev]

Come to an upland sheep unit and see what crows do.

 

[suffolksmallholder]

@Kevtherev. Is Leyburn, N Yorkshire upland?
I still maintain that Shepherds do their job in the traditional way before we get into an argument.
It is not that long ago (two generations) when Shepherds were the 'highest paid' farm skill. How much has changed in that they rely on a plethora of mechanised items. I do recall one elderly Shepherd saying that the Quad has changed Shepherding in that no-one 'listens' any more. That lost lamb can't be heard over the 500cc engine of the latest Honda/Can-am.
This also makes me ask that no one actually 'tends' their flock, simply relying on numbers to turn a profit.
Seen that too.
So 'tending' is a task that includes keeping corvids at bay, ie being there with the flock, not gallivanting eh.
What has changed I ask?
Time. Money. Or simply lazyness???
SS

 

[suffolksmallholder]

Come to an upland sheep unit and see what crows do.View attachment 971270

Our 400 sheep came into the 'home' paddock to lamb. My Friend up there in Wenslydale brings his considerably larger flock to the home paddock. He had a stone wall built to separate the twins from the triplets as a method of control over simplified feeding. The picture you post is a rather morose imagination from someone with a lot of artistic licence.
FFS the lambing season is THE most important time of a sheep farmers year so to portray the lone ewe and her dead lamb without any visible human interest is quite bizzar!
Perhaps this is what occurs in your part of the world? I really hope not.
SS

 

[Kevtherev]

It’s a very famous painting infact and shows what corvids are all about nothing further to add.
Obviously you don’t know about sheep farming in mid wales and to quote that’s what happens in your part of the world is rather ignorant and insulting.
Goodbye

 

[suffolksmallholder]

It’s a very famous painting infact and shows what corvids are all about nothing further to add.
Obviously you don’t know about sheep farming in mid wales and to quote that’s what happens in your part of the world is rather ignorant and insulting.
Goodbye

No I know nothing about sheep farming in mid Wales. Only in North Yorkshire and the Home Counties.
Goodbye
SS

 

[suffolksmallholder]

It’s a very famous painting infact and shows what corvids are all about nothing further to add.
Obviously you don’t know about sheep farming in mid wales and to quote that’s what happens in your part of the world is rather ignorant and insulting.
Goodbye

@Kevtherev Oh my, could you live with picture like that hanging on your wall? I'd be drowned in the rain-water tank by mid-morning. May be an 'interesting' but morose picture but never an insult. If you take offence then the offence is yours to percieve and never intended. If intended you'd soon know and I never 'intend' and If you take offence then I'm truely sorry.
SS

 

[Jameshenry]

Now here's a story and good job I'm not a corvid nutter killer.........
We really do have a beautiful spot, wildlife & etc, and at the mo no OSR to fudge things up.
We get surprising visitors of the 'Ooooh f'ing hate-it-wild-life-type for all those who like to kill.
We had a visit from a hand-reared Raven. Oh, what a pleasure to interact with such an intelligent bird.
I could go on, but for the short time he/she was with us it was truely enlightening.
For all those who'd immediately reach for the gun, strangling rope, killer stuff please turn off these insincts. My wife & I had the most enjoyable four days with this bird.
We assume the person who imprinted came along and reclaimed it eventually. Any of the above 'kill it' posts make me weep.
SS

I have no doubt ravens and other corvids are extremely intelligent birds, but i suspect if you had ever found newborn lambs with there tongues ripped out of there mouths, or ewes on there backs with an empty eye socket looking at you, you might start to understand why they need to be controlled,

 

[Cab-over Pete]

I think it’s easy to see they are intelligent and evil in equal measure.

 

[Exfarmer]

Magpies will decimate all hedgerow nesting songbirds for a short period.
Magpies will starve after decimating songbirds. Simple
Nature does not need a man with a gun.
SS

Your argument would hold , but for one problem, 100 years ago this was certainly true, but then came along the motor car travelling at speed , which produced road kill. I remember even in the 1960 seeing large numbers of mainly young corvids dying, and if you picked them up, they were feathers and bone, they were starving to death. Today they have manna in the form of road kill, ensuring a continuous supply of fresh food all year round.

 

[neilo]

Killing all and sundry is not the way forward either.
SS

What an insulting post. Who has ever suggested ‘killing all and sundry’ on here? I don’t know of any farmer that wants to do any such thing.

Most, with half a brain, will appreciate the importance of managing numbers and keeping everything in balance. Most problems ‘we’ see are caused by imbalance and overpopulation, whether that be jackdaws, badgers or anything else.

 

[neilo]

Magpies will decimate all hedgerow nesting songbirds for a short period.
Magpies will starve after decimating songbirds. Simple
Nature does not need a man with a gun.
SS

Can the magpies not fly down there? Once they have decimated a local population they will move on to decimate another food source, not starve in one bit of hedgerow.

 

[Northern territory]

What an insulting post. Who has ever suggested ‘killing all and sundry’ on here? I don’t know of any farmer that wants to do any such thing.

Most, with half a brain, will appreciate the importance of managing numbers and keeping everything in balance. Most problems ‘we’ see are caused by imbalance and overpopulation, whether that be jackdaws, badgers or anything else.

The thing is with things like crows, there must be as many around now as there has been for years because how many are actually controlled. Most are moved on by bangers, scarers etc. A few trap them but not many keepers or hobby shooters are interested. My dad used to go poking nests out when he was a kid.

 

[neilo]

@Kevtherev. Is Leyburn, N Yorkshire upland?
I still maintain that Shepherds do their job in the traditional way before we get into an argument.
It is not that long ago (two generations) when Shepherds were the 'highest paid' farm skill. How much has changed in that they rely on a plethora of mechanised items. I do recall one elderly Shepherd saying that the Quad has changed Shepherding in that no-one 'listens' any more. That lost lamb can't be heard over the 500cc engine of the latest Honda/Can-am.
This also makes me ask that no one actually 'tends' their flock, simply relying on numbers to turn a profit.
Seen that too.
So 'tending' is a task that includes keeping corvids at bay, ie being there with the flock, not gallivanting eh.
What has changed I ask?
Time. Money. Or simply lazyness???
SS

You really are an insulting knob aren’t you?

I use a quad as a tool for my shepherding, and don’t even own a smock to wear whilst leaning on my gate chewing my piece of Suffolk straw.

Somehow I still seem to manage to spot a sheep that is little out of sorts and acting out of the ordinary, often from the other side of the field. I take the time to observe whenever I can and I dare say most experienced stockmen will do the same on a daily basis.

As for listening, I was on the phone to a smallholder a few nights ago, who had rung me for some advice on his dozen or so lambs, one of which he had seen straining a little. Just as we were about finished talking, I heard a lamb straining in the distant background, a sound that immediately told me that the poor thing needed sorting that night, not left to see if he would come right.
But no, us quad bike riding shepherds haven’t a clue. Well meaning born again good lifers have clearly got this farming sorted for us.

 

[Kidds]

What an insulting post. Who has ever suggested ‘killing all and sundry’ on here? I don’t know of any farmer that wants to do any such thing.

Written by someone who has spent a lifetime killing things for fun, no doubt often paying for the privilege regularly and even kept a diary of his tally. Now claims to have seen the light and preaches to those that carrying out pest control.
Worse than those ex smokers ranting.

 

[Dry Rot]

The thing is with things like crows, there must be as many around now as there has been for years because how many are actually controlled. Most are moved on by bangers, scarers etc. A few trap them but not many keepers or hobby shooters are interested. My dad used to go poking nests out when he was a kid.

Fifty years ago a local gamekeeping family (father and two sons) would kill approximately 1,000 young 'brancher' rooks from one rookery alone every May. The following year, there would be just as many. I am pretty sure the current gamekeepers don't kill any. What can we conclude from that?

Ravens at lambing are another matter and I am still waiting for clarification of the law. Presented with ravens, a protected bird, attacking lambs and ewes at lambing, what is the shepherd, who has a legal duty to protect his flock, expected to do? I suspect that's a question that gets politicians shifting from one foot to the other and changing the subject.

 

[Jerry]

Fifty years ago a local gamekeeping family (father and two sons) would kill approximately 1,000 young 'brancher' rooks from one rookery alone every May. The following year, there would be just as many. I am pretty sure the current gamekeepers don't kill any. What can we conclude from that?

Ravens at lambing are another matter and I am still waiting for clarification of the law. Presented with ravens, a protected bird, attacking lambs and ewes at lambing, what is the shepherd, who has a legal duty to protect his flock, expected to do? I suspect that's a question that gets politicians shifting from one foot to the other and changing the subject.

re ravens, I believe you can apply for a special license to control them in extreme circumstances.

Trouble is you have to have prove of the harm they are doing and then it can take many weeks for said license to be issued. By which time lambing is over.

Yesterday I counted over 10 ravens in one field where some sheep are but they are doing no harm other than scoffing lamb creep.

5 years ago I never saw a raven

 

[Dry Rot]

re ravens, I believe you can apply for a special license to control them in extreme circumstances.

Trouble is you have to have prove of the harm they are doing and then it can take many weeks for said license to be issued. By which time lambing is over.

Yesterday I counted over 10 ravens in one field where some sheep are but they are doing no harm other than scoffing lamb creep.

5 years ago I never saw a raven

I think we may soon discover why our ancestors controlled such things, if we aren't already. It needs a lot more facts being exposed on social media -- if it's not removed by the administrators as likely to shock and upset the average viewer.

It always amuses me to read of the housewife who can watch those dear little fox cubs playing from her kitchen window. Then foxy grows up and has to learn to kill and practises on the housewife's chickens, not doing a very efficient job as it learns to kill!

 

[Kevtherev]

Remember reading that corvid populations grew rapidly during WW1 due to the lack of gamekeepers at that time.
(Due to chaps being called up to go to the trenches)

 

[Kevtherev]

re ravens, I believe you can apply for a special license to control them in extreme circumstances.

Trouble is you have to have prove of the harm they are doing and then it can take many weeks for said license to be issued. By which time lambing is over.

Yesterday I counted over 10 ravens in one field where some sheep are but they are doing no harm other than scoffing lamb creep.

5 years ago I never saw a raven

Quite a few around here in sheep country.
Very good on gas mark 6 with some oven chips.