Cryptorchid lambs

[polk_farmer]

Following on from the creep feeding thread and the mention of crypto lambs (balls pushed up into body and ring underneath). Does anyone do it in this country? I know the kiwis like it.

Not heard of anyone doing it, but seems like quite a few plus points to it. We keep a fair load entire but do get abit panicky after weaning if they aren't gone. Could also be an option on would be whethers to enhance growth rates and keep them leaner

 

[Northeastfarmer]

What’s the point in putting a ring on and leaving the balls above

 

[polk_farmer]

What’s the point in putting a ring on and leaving the balls above

Pushes the balls up into the body so the body temp makes them too warm to be fertile. But the lambs still exhibit the same characteristics as ram lambs

 

[David.]

Every day is a school day, they say.

 

[Northeastfarmer]

Pushes the balls up into the body so the body temp makes them too warm to be fertile. But the lambs still exhibit the same characteristics as ram lambs

I wouldn’t want to risk it....a long time ago I bought some store lambs and some one had made a cock up of ringing a lamb and that bloody thing shagged everything

 

[Gulli]

You may as well leave them entire and run a separate group of have thought.
Save yourself the pennies for the rings

 

[Farmer Fin]

Pushes the balls up into the body so the body temp makes them too warm to be fertile. But the lambs still exhibit the same characteristics as ram lambs

Don’t kid yourself. Receipt for disaster. Seen plenty of disasters with people doing this.

 

[Global ovine]

What’s the point in putting a ring on and leaving the balls above

Growth rates are around 4 kgs heavier at 12 weeks than ewes and wethers. With growth rate having the highest correlation to profit, it begs the question; why not use a legal growth hormone (Testosterone) that cost nothing?

Not the best practice on remote hill sheep that have severely compromised growth and are rarely mustered, ie, marketed prime at an older age.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Well worth it if they'll be close to finished by the time they reach puberty, which varies greatly depending on breed and system.
And also market, I personally wouldn't buy wether lambs if crypt lambs were available.

 

[beardface]

What’s the success rate in crypt lambs?

If it’s say 99% then in 100 lambs one could be fertile and 1 ram lamb could serve 100 ewe lambs. Surely it would need to be at least 99.9% for it to be worthwhile. If your jack and Jill lambs and there’s no balls to double check after and your working quick so mistake an areshole for a fanny you could end up in a right pickle. Surely be better just to leave them unrung if you want to use testosterone as a growth promoter. All depends on someone in the know answering my question I guess.

 

[neilo]

If you are pushing them out as fast as you can (finished at 12-14weeks) then why not just leave them entire?

If they’re growing slower, for whatever reason, then a crypt lamb that is fertilecan do as much damage as any other rig running with them. The only way to prevent havoc would be to seperate at puberty, in which case you might as well have just left them entire anyway.

Unless crypting is 100% effective, which it’s not by all accounts, then either castrate properly or leave entire imo. Sounds like a perfect way to complicate things to me.

 

[Global ovine]

What’s the success rate in crypt lambs?

If it’s say 99% then in 100 lambs one could be fertile and 1 ram lamb could serve 100 ewe lambs. Surely it would need to be at least 99.9% for it to be worthwhile. If your jack and Jill lambs and there’s no balls to double check after and your working quick so mistake an areshole for a fanny you could end up in a right pickle. Surely be better just to leave them unrung if you want to use testosterone as a growth promoter. All depends on someone in the know answering my question I guess.

Some NZ farmers do leave them entire, but if any are prone to dagginess, then that becomes a bigger job to clean up and an increased fly strike risk. With the majority of males made into crypts in NZ, the scale of farming that exists on often quite steep and rugged hills and the fact that a huge number of lambs are tailed (docked if in the North Is.) by contract gangs, one would think that if accidental pregnancies were a problem, crypt lambs would have fallen out of favour as soon after it started. Entire store lambs are much harder to sell, whereas a premium is paid for crypts.
There is serious money to made by drafting off lambs to the processor up to a month earlier. In an over 2000 male lambs (average size) operation, that is up to 90 tonnes of DM that can shifted forward to save future maintenance feed costs, or buy in stores to finish etc. The average NZ farm would value DM at about 18 cents per kg (at lot more if in a drought) especially when maintenance fertiliser (P,K,S,Mg + lime) represents about 8 cents of that value and unavoidable fixed costs such as rent/mortgage, insurance, house and administration etc. will consume around a third of the value of each kg of DM grown. Anything that extracts dosh to cover these costs and leaves a profit is an advantage. Entires can cause more management costs than crypts.

 

[beardface]

Some NZ farmers do leave them entire, but if any are prone to dagginess, then that becomes a bigger job to clean up and an increased fly strike risk. With the majority of males made into crypts in NZ, the scale of farming that exists on often quite steep and rugged hills and the fact that a huge number of lambs are tailed (docked if in the North Is.) by contract gangs, one would think that if accidental pregnancies were a problem, crypt lambs would have fallen out of favour as soon after it started. Entire store lambs are much harder to sell, whereas a premium is paid for crypts.
There is serious money to made by drafting off lambs to the processor up to a month earlier. In an over 2000 male lambs (average size) operation, that is up to 90 tonnes of DM that can shifted forward to save future maintenance feed costs, or buy in stores to finish etc. The average NZ farm would value DM at about 18 cents per kg (at lot more if in a drought) especially when maintenance fertiliser (P,K,S,Mg + lime) represents about 8 cents of that value and unavoidable fixed costs such as rent/mortgage, insurance, house and administration etc. will consume around a third of the value of each kg of DM grown. Anything that extracts dosh to cover these costs and leaves a profit is an advantage. Entires can cause more management costs than crypts.

Interesting stuff. My post was aimed at playing devils advocate. Have there been any studies to assess success of crypting lambs in terms of fertility? I understand if the procedure caused a few issues it wouldn’t be done anymore, but how successful is it in controlled trials. In my view crypting lambs is fine in a country with a summer dry climate as sheep thrive in the dry if adequately fed, but I find a wet summer over here can seriously knock lamb growth rates no matter what the feed regime. It’s a wet year with crypt lambs that I’d be worried about if it’s not 99.9%. Plus there’s a healthy ethnic market in August for ram lambs, which have had the benefit of testosterone to add to growth.

 

[Global ovine]

I know of no trials to determine fertility status of crypt lambs. I dare say that reflects the skills of the operator, however it is as easy as placing an elastrator ring on the desired place on the tail.
Regarding climate differences; pasture feeding levels have to be adequate to maintain a desired lamb growth rate irrespective of weather challenges. In most summer dry regions in NZ it is a sprint race to get lambs to a killable weight before disappearing pasture supplies compromise the whole farming operation. These are definitely not the problems of a summer moist regions. Another reason why rotational grazing systems are the norm in NZ as forecasting critical pasture supplies can be better determined to retain or off-load stock.

 

[Devil's advocate]

I thought the practise was illegal in this country.

Entire or castrated is my preference.

 

[Global ovine]

I thought the practise was illegal in this country.

Entire or castrated is my preference.

What, putting a rubber ring on the scrotum at birth?

 

[primmiemoo]

It's surely easier to cryptorchid than to make a wether?
No worrying about pinching testes or snagging a hernia, just a ring at the base of the empty purse.

The February ram lambs are left entire (weaned promptly from part bred Dorsets), but the second flock lambing later is ringed.
I've been wondering whether those should be crypted in order to clear as many as possible before the New Year.

If it's illegal, I won't, obvs.

 

[Andy84]

I know of a guy near heat tried it on a hill flock near me and it certainly wasn’t anywhere near 99% effective it may have been operator error though. I personally don’t have the balls to try it! (Sorry bad pun!)

 

[JD-Kid]

do mostly all crypts here. some. tail enders weather them
done wrong they can work balls need to be pushed. right up then ringed.
keep as clean as weathers with higher growth rates leaner in fat too
if you want to see a lamb fold up like a cheep deck chair. make them in to weathers as crypts they don't show the same side effects at tailing

 

[Kiwi Pete]

do mostly all crypts here. some. tail enders weather them
done wrong they can work balls need to be pushed. right up then ringed.
keep as clean as weathers with higher growth rates leaner in fat too
if you want to see a lamb fold up like a cheep deck chair. make them in to weathers as crypts they don't show the same side effects at tailing

Spot on, we used to tail from 65 to 70 thou per year and never had any complaints, agree a wether is a better idea if you can't grow them fast. Easy to duff the job.

I just leave mine entire with a long tail but it's boys land here and they don't get a chance to shag or make a dag