Cultan
- Thread starter Clive
- Start date
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
I've had a good look at this. Research papers that I found suggested that it is possible to supply all of the season's N requirements in one hit and achieve the same yield. I didn't find evidence that yields were consistently increased. Can't quite remember if the Cultan method allowed for a greater N use efficiency.
Two things that stuck in my mind were, firstly, that this method is suited to particular types of soils. Secondly you have to think about the practicality of driving every 12m with a very heavy trailed tank in the early spring when conditions are likely to be wet. Also factor in the inability to tailor total N application rates in response to changing weather as the growing season unfolds (i.e. can't cut back on N in a dry year).
On the first point, you need a soil that is going to be able to hang onto the NH4+ ions. It depends on things like pH, whether your soil is (non-)calcareous, what the CEC is and so on. Hopefully York will be able to give a bit more comment on this if you get him signed up as Cultan is one of his jobs.
My preliminary conlcusion was that the practical logistics are challenging. Huge water volumes are required (3000 l /ha I think) with heavy bits of kit in a high rainfall climate.
Two things that stuck in my mind were, firstly, that this method is suited to particular types of soils. Secondly you have to think about the practicality of driving every 12m with a very heavy trailed tank in the early spring when conditions are likely to be wet. Also factor in the inability to tailor total N application rates in response to changing weather as the growing season unfolds (i.e. can't cut back on N in a dry year).
On the first point, you need a soil that is going to be able to hang onto the NH4+ ions. It depends on things like pH, whether your soil is (non-)calcareous, what the CEC is and so on. Hopefully York will be able to give a bit more comment on this if you get him signed up as Cultan is one of his jobs.
My preliminary conlcusion was that the practical logistics are challenging. Huge water volumes are required (3000 l /ha I think) with heavy bits of kit in a high rainfall climate.
- Location
- Mid Northants
Andrew Manfield from Yorkshire runs one, he also imports agrisem , he is on the BFf
Knockie
Member
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
Been looking into Cultan and Ammonium nutrition for a couple of years now and I'm now convinced its the way I want to go, to the extent I have 400 tonnes of Ammonium Sulphate sitting in a shed and have bought a reconditioned DuPort 10m tool bar which as we speak I'm fitting to the Quadtrac with 3000l rear tank and 2000l front tank. I know it sounds crazy but the quad carries its self very indeed and I would rather have two sets of tracks running over growing crop than three sets of wheels with a tractor and tanker.
The idea is to supply the plant with 100% Ammonium N nutrition with no artificial Nitrate N thus setting the plant up in a root dominant "state" where Nh4 will convert to Nh2 in the root as apposed to converting nitrate to Nh2 in the stem/leaf resulting in a much more efficient conversion.
The plant roots will do an exchange of Hydrogen for Ammonium which will result in lowering the Ph in the root zone where there could be benefits with nutrient availability etc. I believe the "good" biology also prefer a lower Ph too.
Anyway.....you could say I'm quite excited about Cultan
I'm still learning and have lots and lots still to learn but I do think that Cultan is key to achieving our long term goals on our farm.
Cheers
SD.
The idea is to supply the plant with 100% Ammonium N nutrition with no artificial Nitrate N thus setting the plant up in a root dominant "state" where Nh4 will convert to Nh2 in the root as apposed to converting nitrate to Nh2 in the stem/leaf resulting in a much more efficient conversion.
The plant roots will do an exchange of Hydrogen for Ammonium which will result in lowering the Ph in the root zone where there could be benefits with nutrient availability etc. I believe the "good" biology also prefer a lower Ph too.
Anyway.....you could say I'm quite excited about Cultan
I'm still learning and have lots and lots still to learn but I do think that Cultan is key to achieving our long term goals on our farm.
Cheers
SD.
- Location
- North Bucks
Knockie said:
Wow. That's a big task. Pictures would be interesting.
Knockie
Member
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
Aye no problem I'll get some pics up, also busy just now making a mixing set up.....not too sure how it will work as its not that conventional, but if it does it will allow us to mix over 200'000 litres at a time....fingers crossed.
Ta.
SD.
Ta.
SD.
Knockie said:Been looking into Cultan and Ammonium nutrition for a couple of years now and I'm now convinced its the way I want to go, to the extent I have 400 tonnes of Ammonium Sulphate sitting in a shed and have bought a reconditioned DuPort 10m tool bar which as we speak I'm fitting to the Quadtrac with 3000l rear tank and 2000l front tank. I know it sounds crazy but the quad carries its self very indeed and I would rather have two sets of tracks running over growing crop than three sets of wheels with a tractor and tanker.
The idea is to supply the plant with 100% Ammonium N nutrition with no artificial Nitrate N thus setting the plant up in a root dominant "state" where Nh4 will convert to Nh2 in the root as apposed to converting nitrate to Nh2 in the stem/leaf resulting in a much more efficient conversion.
The plant roots will do an exchange of Hydrogen for Ammonium which will result in lowering the Ph in the root zone where there could be benefits with nutrient availability etc. I believe the "good" biology also prefer a lower Ph too.
Anyway.....you could say I'm quite excited about Cultan
I'm still learning and have lots and lots still to learn but I do think that Cultan is key to achieving our long term goals on our farm.
Cheers
SD.
Really interesting stuff - tell us more about the mix plant and quadtrac applicator, pictures would be great as well !
- Location
- Ashford, Kent
Sjlepner does CULTAN and would be happy to speak to people. Have looked into it. Love the theory but struggle with the practicalities eg 2000l a hectare of liquid. I think the way forward is getting one machine between a few farmers as they can be pricey. Knockie good luck with it all. See you in February
Colin
Member
- Location
- Perthshire
Right then, it has been decreed that mop is the work of the devil due to the Cl causing problems what then does a high dose of AS do to the soil biology?
Discuss.
Discuss.
Knockie
Member
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
With my limited knowledge my understanding is that as the AS is "spiked" under the surface it forms small depots of fert which essentially doesn't really cover a large % of the field , whereas broadcast will nearly cover 100% of the field.
With these depots of N in the Ammonium form the plants will sort of have to work for their food where the growing points of the roots do a swap for Ammonium ions with Hydrogen ions resulting in a probable lower Ph around the depot.
I'm thinking harder working roots have to be a good thing for soil biology root extrudes etc.
Cheers.
SD.
With these depots of N in the Ammonium form the plants will sort of have to work for their food where the growing points of the roots do a swap for Ammonium ions with Hydrogen ions resulting in a probable lower Ph around the depot.
I'm thinking harder working roots have to be a good thing for soil biology root extrudes etc.
Cheers.
SD.
Colin
Member
- Location
- Perthshire
My understanding is that the roots grow around the depot as they cannot grow in it, I have looked at it the past, I wondered if you could get the same affect by using dribble bars that have the fert fired out of them at high pressure at intervals up the field.
Knockie
Member
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
I think there is a system like that, I'm sure I noticed a picture somewhere, think it was google images.
SD.
SD.
Didn't Kinsey put up thing showing N movement being only 2" sideways. Trust you got back OK
SorenIlsoe
Member
- Location
- Fjenneslev, Denmark
Hello Knockie! You have a lot of new things going on!
One of the theories is also that the depots has a very small surface. This Means that soil bacterias has a Little surface to "attack" the NH4 for changing it to NO3. Normally this proces goes very fast especially at high temperatures. This Means the Nitrogen stays as NH4 for a long time.
I also have read that the plant use 1/4 of the energi to uptake NH4 compared to NO3.
As i understand from trials and talking to a German farmer from pratice: Cultan gives the same yield at 160 N/ha and 200 N/ha broadcasted.
One of the theories is also that the depots has a very small surface. This Means that soil bacterias has a Little surface to "attack" the NH4 for changing it to NO3. Normally this proces goes very fast especially at high temperatures. This Means the Nitrogen stays as NH4 for a long time.
I also have read that the plant use 1/4 of the energi to uptake NH4 compared to NO3.
As i understand from trials and talking to a German farmer from pratice: Cultan gives the same yield at 160 N/ha and 200 N/ha broadcasted.
Post here now the reference on cultan. York is best person to answer along with Slejpner.
trying to compress file so it fits here. Can't fit it will try a link..
At last have had on computer for long time never sent it out so did not know it was big file.
http://cultan.de/inhalt/pdf/CULTAN-Referat_Koenigsberg_eng.pdf
trying to compress file so it fits here. Can't fit it will try a link..
At last have had on computer for long time never sent it out so did not know it was big file.
http://cultan.de/inhalt/pdf/CULTAN-Referat_Koenigsberg_eng.pdf
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
I wonder if anyone uses this sort of system with Cultan? Would certain cut the weight down in the field. Must need a fairly powerful pump to counteract the pressure drop along that line!
warksfarmer
Member
If i ever did it Lee I don't think we wouldn't be looking for more area to spread it over - its the logistics that make it complex and are all that is stopping me doing in now TBH, massive volumes to mix and apply. I doubt a 12m set up would be able to cover even 50% of our own area in a timely fashion
I keeping looking though and if I can find the mechanical solution to make it realistic it would be a no brainer to do it really