Cumbria farmhouse heating options

Discussion in 'Renewable Energy' started by Billiedog18, Feb 5, 2018.

  1. renewablejohn

    renewablejohn Member

    Location:
    lancs
    Used to think that when I had 400mm over the ceiling with a cold loft. Was then told about the benefits of a warm loft by adding 200mm to the rafters. Thought it would not work as I had also heard this tale of it being pointless but it does and is now a warm dry loft used for storage.
     
  2. suffolksmallholder

    Location:
    Suffolk
    So @renewablejohn your loft has floor & ceiling insulation? Am I right? With a 35 degree pitch I've effectively no loft space mind & I hate stuff in lofts.
    One of my dilemmas was the cold water tank position in one section of my project. Condensation being a major issue along with the mains cold pipe feed through to this. The tank now lives within its own compartment. The cold feed in & both feeds out are heavily insulated. On the unfinished part where I'm still on 1950's imperial plumbing the cold pipe continually drips condensation when there's a lot of water used. :confused:
    To get around the British door design the main entrances (one built, one still on the drawing board) are both effectively air-locks (posh name for heavily insulated porch) This works well with very little heat loss. Bench seating, UFH, boot rack & coat hooks result in an area where folk can remove outside clothing in comfort & boots/coats will be dried in reasonable time ready for the next time outside. The dogs like the floor as well!
    SS
     
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  3. phillipe

    phillipe New Member

    I see ,all new roofs i do now if we insulate from ridge to wall plate,having no cold spots means no cold draghts,most of the recent ones i have done have had a very small area above the ceiling rafter so it doesnt matter ,plus you can then have your spot lights in the flat ceiling
     
    suffolksmallholder likes this.
  4. renewablejohn

    renewablejohn Member

    Location:
    lancs
    Pity the man in the factory does not go out to site and instruct the builder how to use his kingspan. In particular the need to seal all gaps around the edge of kingspan and not to drill holes though it without sealing.
     
    phillipe likes this.
  5. renewablejohn

    renewablejohn Member

    Location:
    lancs
    Effectively my loft has now become an unheated room, However the important fact is the existing insulation at the ceiling works better as the loft area is now warmer than without insulation in the rafters. I also detest stuff in lofts but can no longer store stuff outside in barns as it gets nicked. Did move all tanks out of the loft and now have pressurised hot and cold water system. We went for the outward opening Swedish doors as where on an exposed hilltop and the wind pushes against the seal on Swedish doors. Porches on our farmhouse are standard due to its exposed position.
     
    suffolksmallholder likes this.
  6. phillipe

    phillipe New Member

    I think you will find that actually those instructions are on the kingspan intallation fact sheet ,but hey ho what man reads instructions?
     
  7. thesilentone

    thesilentone Member

    Interesting topic. Going back to the original post and what is most efficient. I'm unsure if one exists, however a tool that can take each heat demand and thermal loss, and calculate the thermal requirements to suit water/radiator or under floor heating temps would be very useful. A mass balance.

    If you are installing a log-burner, then this in conjunction with a heat store is a great solution. However, how do you exploit heat loss, re-circulation and transfer. Looking to all areas where heat can be scavenged (washing machine, dish washer, shower drain, bath drain etc) and run this through heat exchanger before dumping (or alternatively dumping if having a negative effect). it would be very interesting to see the end result of a mass balance from all these appliances and what we could effectively use.

    You wouldn't use the water from the washing machine to wash the cutlery, but put through a heat exchanger before drain and hey-presto....
     
  8. renewablejohn

    renewablejohn Member

    Location:
    lancs
    The lower temperature thingy comes from normal radiators are rubbish at convection at low temperatures so if your existing radiator is supplied with hot water from an oil boiler at 80C then you would need approx 3 times the amount of radiator for a GSHP at 30C.
     
  9. akaPABLO01

    akaPABLO01 Member

    Nah. I’ll post a comparison of radiator sizes tomorrow. Oil versus heat pump. I usually find that the majority of radiators we’ve replaced have been undersized by the oil boiler guy that must have stuck a wet finger in the air to size his.
     
  10. akaPABLO01

    akaPABLO01 Member

    Just been thinking Jonnyboy

    Do you have an oil boiler and is heating thermostat on it set to 80°C?

    In fact, if anyone still has an oil or lpg boiler, what is your heating temperature flow set at?
     
  11. e3120

    e3120 Member

    Location:
    Northumberland
    Dunno what the stat is set at, but was trying to measure temps today because of this thread. Reckon I had 60+ at rads, somewhere over 70 at exit thermal store. But thermometer was a bodge. To be fair, temps were probably a bit higher today as it's windy (it switches to immersion heating when the turbine is exporting and I set the stats well high on them to store max energy).
     
  12. akaPABLO01

    akaPABLO01 Member

    So thermostat on the boiler is broken, is there only one or two?

    And lastly, why on earth do you still have an oil/lpg when you have free electricity?
     
  13. e3120

    e3120 Member

    Location:
    Northumberland
    There's loads of stats to make everything work intelligently, thermal store, buffer tank, boiler, immersion x 5 - they all work.

    Electric isn't free. It costs me 4.9p (my PPA rate) when the wind is blowing, so a bit cheaper than oil. Oil far cheaper when there's insufficient wind. A heatpump would extract more value from the cheaper part of electric.
     
    phillipe likes this.
  14. akaPABLO01

    akaPABLO01 Member

    So, using a heat pump on your ppa will cost 1.36p/kWth
    What do you pay for oil /kWth?
     
  15. phillipe

    phillipe New Member

    65
     
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  16. phillipe

    phillipe New Member

    Whats installation cost of a ghsp if he has the room ?
     
  17. akaPABLO01

    akaPABLO01 Member

    Each system is bespoke. Anything from £1200/£1600 /kW

    Have you tried 60°?
     
  18. phillipe

    phillipe New Member

    She wont let me :)
     
    akaPABLO01 likes this.
  19. renewablejohn

    renewablejohn Member

    Location:
    lancs
    No longer have oil but when we did the boiler stat was set between 75 and 80.
     
  20. akaPABLO01

    akaPABLO01 Member

    Must have had money to burn eh, that or you needed it that high due to the poor efficiency of the boiler or super sludgy radiators.

    When was the last time you power flushed your wet system?
     

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