Current TB strategy

Yorkshire lad

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
YO42
Now that we have have left the EU and we are looking for trade deals to sell our beef . Will the ammount of TB we have be a huge disadvantage in selling our beef abroad
The culls are working where they are allowed but the reality is TB is spreading . Here in Yorkshire nearly every case of TB has been brought in on a lorry . Should the only movements from TB1 to TB 4 areas be in to biosecure finishing units which we need more of
Our grandparents eradicated TB they will be turning in their gaves at the current situation . Are we sleep walking it to the whole country being infected ?
Now that we have a strong goverment who will support a Badger cull . Should we we as an industry grasp the nettle and improve our bio security and look at how we move livestock around TB can be eradicated but we as farmers will have to do more and maybe have to fund some of the cost
Its difficult to ask the tax payer to fund a Tb outbreak when its been transported there on on a truck
 

beardface

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
East Yorkshire
Compulsory 12 month testing across the whole country, full roll out of badger cull particularly in high risk areas, country wide deer cull (personally I think they spread it more than badgers), with voluntary reporting of deer carcase abscesses; and stop beast being traded between high risk and low risk areas unless there going to an AFU or have done 2 clear tests 12 weeks apart before movement for breeding cows.
 

twizzel

Member
Compulsory 12 month testing across the whole country, full roll out of badger cull particularly in high risk areas, country wide deer cull (personally I think they spread it more than badgers), with voluntary reporting of deer carcase abscesses; and stop beast being traded between high risk and low risk areas unless there going to an AFU or have done 2 clear tests 12 weeks apart before movement for breeding cows.

Deer don’t excrete the disease like badgers do when they snuffle along close to the ground. Also TB will kill a deer fairly early after contracting it whereas badgers are solid hardy little things and take a long time to peg it, during which they excrete it and spread it wherever they go. Not saying deer don’t harbour it but from what I’ve been told they generally are an overspill species which only gets TB if it’s endemic in the badgers, and they tend to die pretty quickly too.
 

Yorkshire lad

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
YO42
You've obviously not heard about why the Derbyshire cull was stopped last minute... :banghead:
Yes I’ve heard but its been taken to a Judicial review
We now have proof that culls are a essential tool in eradicating Tb
It’s a brave an foolish politician to ignore the facts
But there again Im not a politician
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
sense and reason on tb went out years ago, its politics and public opinion that count now, some idiots are calling for the removal of cattle, to protect the badgers, lets just hope, with a stable gov, that they listen to the vets, and role out the cull, to all high risk areas, it is time that is lacking, you need several years of results, to get a good overview, as to whether it is, or is not, working, at the moment, the statistics can be translated, in anyway suited to who's view, they want to promote ! A few more years to go, before the facts are very solid !
 

milkloss

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
East Sussex
sense and reason on tb went out years ago, its politics and public opinion that count now, some idiots are calling for the removal of cattle, to protect the badgers, lets just hope, with a stable gov, that they listen to the vets, and role out the cull, to all high risk areas, it is time that is lacking, you need several years of results, to get a good overview, as to whether it is, or is not, working, at the moment, the statistics can be translated, in anyway suited to who's view, they want to promote ! A few more years to go, before the facts are very solid !

Be careful what you wish for: Not all vets think culling badgers is a good idea.
 

Farmer Fin

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
Put the whole country on tb1..... find it, sort it, get it done.
That would be a waste of time and resources. We know the herds that are infected. Need to use more of the new tests when a positive herd is identified to ensure all infected animals are taken. It will lead to more false positives but it’s the only way to clear it from a herd.
Then break the cycle of reinfection!
 

Sorbaer

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
East Sussex
That would be a waste of time and resources. We know the herds that are infected. Need to use more of the new tests when a positive herd is identified to ensure all infected animals are taken. It will lead to more false positives but it’s the only way to clear it from a herd.
Then break the cycle of reinfection!
Its beyond me how the whole country isn't on tb1 already, yes high initial cost but it is the only way to find it and stop it spreading. tb4 areas just are more room for error in an already poor system
 

Farmer Fin

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
Its beyond me how the whole country isn't on tb1 already, yes high initial cost but it is the only way to find it and stop it spreading. tb4 areas just are more room for error in an already poor system
Because the level of infection in a TB4 is very low and the number of infected herds not known about is lower. It would be more effective to stop cattle moving out of a tb1 into a tb4, but no one would tolerate that. Like everything spend the money where the most return and that has to be sorting out the endemically infected herds otherwise we are never going to get on top of it. Too many herds go clear and then down again a few months / years later as the infection was never cleared properly the first time or reinfected.
 

Arceye

Member
Location
South Norfolk
Because the level of infection in a TB4 is very low and the number of infected herds not known about is lower. It would be more effective to stop cattle moving out of a tb1 into a tb4, but no one would tolerate that. Like everything spend the money where the most return and that has to be sorting out the endemically infected herds otherwise we are never going to get on top of it. Too many herds go clear and then down again a few months / years later as the infection was never cleared properly the first time or reinfected.
Or the herd put the infection into the wildlife where it continually gets re-infected.
TB in deer does not spread like tb in badgers. If a deer is ill or infected the others will reject it and drive it away, whereas a badger will go down into its horrid little sett where they all breathe the same air and the infection multiplies very quickly and spreads, badgers are social animals.
At least tb1 areas are tested, as I said before, some animals in tb4 areas are only tested once, at the slaughterhouse.
Defra and AH don't have the ability to do anything large scale as was proven back in the F and M outbreak. No expertise, no staff, no money and no will power to get it done. A lot of people make a vast amount of money from TB, and it ain't farmers, we just get the sh!t end of the stick.
 

Farmer Fin

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
Or the herd put the infection into the wildlife where it continually gets re-infected.
TB in deer does not spread like tb in badgers. If a deer is ill or infected the others will reject it and drive it away, whereas a badger will go down into its horrid little sett where they all breathe the same air and the infection multiplies very quickly and spreads, badgers are social animals.
At least tb1 areas are tested, as I said before, some animals in tb4 areas are only tested once, at the slaughterhouse.
Defra and AH don't have the ability to do anything large scale as was proven back in the F and M outbreak. No expertise, no staff, no money and no will power to get it done. A lot of people make a vast amount of money from TB, and it ain't farmers, we just get the sh!t end of the stick.
Not quite sure what your point is - other than farmers get the sh!t end of the stick - we are in agreement.
The fact is to control tb farmers are going to have to get a shittier stick and that seems to be unpalatable to most. Be it TB1 the whole country or more severe testing and movement restrictions on current TB1. Like I said before I believe the second would be more efficient but it will never be allowed to happen due to the effect on short term trade.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
I was told about the 'screw' cattle, with TB, or Johnes, back years ago, before TB was addressed, Johnes sort of went on the back burner for years, bit about when I started, but never worried about it for 30 odd years just never saw it, and I wonder, now its in the news again, whether that is because milkers are living longer ? But, I have never seen a screw animal, with tb, presumably, because it gets picked up quickly ? Has anyone one seen a screw cow, with chronic TB ?
The ever increasing cost of TB testing, compensation, let alone the paperwork, might be the saving/or not, as the gov might listen to some vets, and actually get on and sort it, to 'save' money.
 

Farmer Fin

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
I was told about the 'screw' cattle, with TB, or Johnes, back years ago, before TB was addressed, Johnes sort of went on the back burner for years, bit about when I started, but never worried about it for 30 odd years just never saw it, and I wonder, now its in the news again, whether that is because milkers are living longer ? But, I have never seen a screw animal, with tb, presumably, because it gets picked up quickly ? Has anyone one seen a screw cow, with chronic TB ?
The ever increasing cost of TB testing, compensation, let alone the paperwork, might be the saving/or not, as the gov might listen to some vets, and actually get on and sort it, to 'save' money.
Cattle very rarely die of TB. The only reason we make a half arsed attempt to control it is due to human health / EU rules. One of the schools of thought is that we should just forget about it and it farmers want to control it then it’s up to them.
Johnes on the other hand does kill cows and has a major effect on productivity. The fear was that there maybe a link the Crohnes, although I believe that Crohnes research is moving away from this.
 

Arceye

Member
Location
South Norfolk
Not quite sure what your point is - other than farmers get the sh!t end of the stick - we are in agreement.
The fact is to control tb farmers are going to have to get a shittier stick and that seems to be unpalatable to most. Be it TB1 the whole country or more severe testing and movement restrictions on current TB1. Like I said before I believe the second would be more efficient but it will never be allowed to happen due to the effect on short term trade.
Farmers are not the one's in control, and Defra will not treat the whole country as tb1 because it is unaffordable and the tests are unreliable.
There is no end to tb because there is no guts in the higher echelons to solve it.
The cheapest way to solve tb is to take the protected status off badgers, within a few months there wouldn't be many left and it would cost the gov nothing.
 
Now that we have have left the EU and we are looking for trade deals to sell our beef . Will the ammount of TB we have be a huge disadvantage in selling our beef abroad?

Yes it will. After 25 years of willful intransigence and a moratorium on the part of the Protection of Badgers Act which permitted culling badgers ‘to prevent the spread of disease’, we have the highest incidence of zoonotic Tuberculosis in our sentinel tested cattle both in the EU and any other country operating an eradication programme.
That will be used as a barrier to trade, and already is, in exports of pigmeat.


The culls are working where they are allowed but the reality is TB is spreading . Here in Yorkshire nearly every case of TB has been brought in on a lorry . Should the only movements from TB1 to TB 4 areas be in to biosecure finishing units which we need more of
Our grandparents eradicated TB they will be turning in their gaves at the current situation .

Are we sleep walking it to the whole country being infected ?

Yes.

Now that we have a strong goverment who will support a Badger cull . Should we we as an industry grasp the nettle and improve our bio security and look at how we move livestock around TB can be eradicated but we as farmers will have to do more and maybe have to fund some of the cost
Its difficult to ask the tax payer to fund a Tb outbreak when its been transported there on on a truck

Cattle have not established different spoligotypes as they move around. The patches of different DNA types remain the same. So cattle movements are not a problem and never has been.

Re ‘strong government ‘ We have a real problem with the PM’s girlfriend, also the current Secretary of State for DEFRA , the PM’s father and other assorted fellow travellers with the organisation they set up and promote.
This one has a wish list of fluff, including stopping badgers culls and vaccinating instead. ( Wish 22)


So I see little cause for optimism. We’re on our own.
 

Farmer Fin

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
Yes it will. After 25 years of willful intransigence and a moratorium on the part of the Protection of Badgers Act which permitted culling badgers ‘to prevent the spread of disease’, we have the highest incidence of zoonotic Tuberculosis in our sentinel tested cattle both in the EU and any other country operating an eradication programme.
That will be used as a barrier to trade, and already is, in exports of pigmeat.




Yes.



Cattle have not established different spoligotypes as they move around. The patches of different DNA types remain the same. So cattle movements are not a problem and never has been.

Re ‘strong government ‘ We have a real problem with the PM’s girlfriend, also the current Secretary of State for DEFRA , the PM’s father and other assorted fellow travellers with the organisation they set up and promote.
This one has a wish list of fluff, including stopping badgers culls and vaccinating instead. ( Wish 22)


So I see little cause for optimism. We’re on our own.
I agree with what you say however you are incorrect about cattle movement and not spreading TB. Cattle movement do spread TB just look at the current outbreak in Cumbria. The problem now is that it has got into the wildlife. I used to work in the edge area and the vast majority of new outbreaks were attributed to cattle movement. What we also saw in the edge was a gradual creep into clean areas and this was attributed to wildlife spread.
 

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