CVS buying up vets practices

[VMD100]

The vet world is extremely small. Everyone knows everyone. Actively poaching customers is just not the done thing. You cant go after Jims customers from his practice 30 miles away because you probably trained alongside him yourself and the conversations that local Golf club or outside Private school when you bump into him could get awkward.

I reckon the larger farms will eventually club together and pay enough to employ a vet and his assistant if corporations intend to rob the job.

As for private hospitals, IVF clinics and the like the majority of them are privately owned anyway.

A big corporate I know recently put out the offer '50% off your first surgery with us including drug costs' if you switch to them at a newly opened branch, it may not be the honourable thing but it is being done.

I couldn't name a single vet who's children go to private school either

 

[nails]

My vets practice of Endell vets in Salisbury has been bought out by this lot https://www.cvsukltd.co.uk/
for me they have flogged 200 years of history for the pound note, I was looking through the CVS Facebook page and going back several months there was no mention of farm livestock just kittens and dogs and all sorts of stuff attached to insurance policies. Has anyone got a vets practice owned by this company and have they continued to serve you well on farm work years into the takeover. To be honest the level of ability of the farm vets has been decreasing year on year up to the takeover and we are left with lots of quite newly qualified vets. I feel that within a period of time this lot will shut the farm department down.

I am also a client of Endells and would agree about the level of ability of the Farm vets, but the trouble is they don,t stay 5 minutes and the throughput of young vets is very different to 10 years ago. There is a lack of older vets so a lack of experience gained over years. Young vets are fine , but they need experienced heads sometimes for advice.
From what i heard CVS was keen to aquire the practice as it wanted to expand their Farm Vet side but that might well be a front.
I will admit i was very surprised they sold out.

 

[puntabrava]

I am also a client of Endells and would agree about the level of ability of the Farm vets, but the trouble is they don,t stay 5 minutes and the throughput of young vets is very different to 10 years ago. There is a lack of older vets so a lack of experience gained over years. Young vets are fine , but they need experienced heads sometimes for advice.
From what i heard CVS was keen to aquire the practice as it wanted to expand their Farm Vet side but that might well be a front.
I will admit i was very surprised they sold out.

The problem was created by the practice principal who’s employee management finished with 200 years of practice history founded on livestock. Nobody was left within the practice to carry on the time honoured practice of buying their way in. No vet that is of much use is going to work for the likes of cvs, the quality individuals will be looking for a practice to furnish themselves with a career escalation.

 

[Netherfield]

I was talking to one our local vets a short while ago, when he joined the firm it was 50/50 small animal/farm visits now it's 80/20, in fact he said he could sometimes go a week and not visit a farm.

The younger vets don't want the unsociable hours anymore, another vet practice in Barnsley was trying to sell on their large animal work to them, but they turned it down due to the distances they could have had to travel just to get to a job.

 

[andrew830]

Very pleased with cvs,our vets were taken over and now we have a dedicated large animal practise,
All the vets we have had out have been good and the drugs are cheaper now aswell.

 

[Dry Rot]

Very pleased with cvs,our vets were taken over and now we have a dedicated large animal practise,
All the vets we have had out have been good and the drugs are cheaper now aswell.

To my cynical and suspicious mind, that might be because they are trying to undercut existing practices so they will go out of business or sell up to CVS!

A big conglomerate ought to be cheaper because of economies of scale and greater buying power. But are they?

 

[Devil's advocate]

I have a son who works for an american investment bank in London who specialises in the sale of vets and medical businesses. In the last 12 months his firm alone have been involved in the sale of 100's of millions of pounds worth of vet businesses to an american investor and he told me last week that he was at work till 3am the previous Saturday morning working on an another sale, he thinks probably to the same investor, who intends to dominate the markets of the UK, Sweden and Germany. Because this investor is privately owned they can take a 50 year view on the return to their investment.

And while you are worrying about the vets. My boy also sells hospitals, medical practices and IVF clinics to city investors.

My local dentist has been taken over by a large organisation.

Indian & Romanian dentists now,

Instead of two week waiting list, now 10 weeks. "Oh sir we do private if you are in pain".

 

[kill]

To my cynical and suspicious mind, that might be because they are trying to undercut existing practices so they will go out of business or sell up to CVS!

A big conglomerate ought to be cheaper because of economies of scale and greater buying power. But are they?

I could be like when Americans pension funds purchased almost all UK undertakers at ridiculously high prices about 30 years ago and left the owners name's over the doors but then virtually tripled priced over night

 

[Dry Rot]

My local dentist has been taken over by a large organisation.

Indian & Romanian dentists now,

Instead of two week waiting list, now 10 weeks. "Oh sir we do private if you are in pain".

I am pretty sure NHS are obliged to see you without delay if you are in pain. Google might clarify the situation.

When I attended, not so long ago, the Polish receptionist said all dentists were busy. I refused to move until I was seen one. Suddenly, a dentist became available! All the dentists are Indian.

 

[Devil's advocate]

I am pretty sure NHS are obliged to see you without delay if you are in pain. Google might clarify the situation.

When I attended, not so long ago, the Polish receptionist said all dentists were busy. I refused to move until I was seen one. Suddenly, a dentist became available! All the dentists are Indian.

Full story saw the last English dentist who is great but only part time small kids to care for.

She said you are in a state so you need to be back in two weeks to have the work done.

Saw the receptionist to book the appointment, Sorry sir no appointments for 10 weeks.

I replied fine if my dentist is busy, I'm happy to see any dentist.

Receptionist no limited resources sorry no appointments for 10 weeks, but if you are in pain book a pain appoitment.

I replied I'm in lots of pain, can I have an appointment.

No sir not for 10 weeks, but come back if you are in pain, for a pain appointment (where they examine only)

I said I may change to a private dentist who I know (customer of mine).

Oh sir there is no need for that, have you considered our private service. You can see Carrie (my regular dentist) private.

There is never any shortage of resources when a dentists comes up for sale, this lot buy them & appear to be shutting down the NHS part for adults.

Sorry off topic, but it appears some vets may use this business model.

My vet one man band, top notch.

 

[ollie989898]

A big corporate I know recently put out the offer '50% off your first surgery with us including drug costs' if you switch to them at a newly opened branch, it may not be the honourable thing but it is being done.

I couldn't name a single vet who's children go to private school either

You need to get out more.

 

[VMD100]

You need to get out more.

Maybe you Southern lot are just overpaid in general

 

[andrew830]

To my cynical and suspicious mind, that might be because they are trying to undercut existing practices so they will go out of business or sell up to CVS!

A big conglomerate ought to be cheaper because of economies of scale and greater buying power. But are they?

I understand where you are coming from,our old vet was less per hour but more for drugs,cvs are more per hour but internet prices for drugs.
The ratio for time and drugs works better for cvs than my old vets,no doubt others will be the other way around.

 

[Dry Rot]

I understand where you are coming from,our old vet was less per hour but more for drugs,cvs are more per hour but internet prices for drugs.
The ratio for time and drugs works better for cvs than my old vets,no doubt others will be the other way around.

As I understand it, your old vet cannot refuse to give you a prescription so you can source your drugs elsewhere. That's because there was a ruling under anti monopoly legislation.

CVS presumably know that and charge you the same prices you would pay online. But if you start asking for prescriptions, your old vet could catch up very quickly!

https://webarchive.nationalarchives...//rep_pub/reports/2003/478vetmeds.htm#summary

 

[Bongodog]

I could be like when Americans pension funds purchased almost all UK undertakers at ridiculously high prices about 30 years ago and left the owners name's over the doors but then virtually tripled priced over night

Thats a little overegged, Dignity did come over from the US and bought about 20%, price increase every 6 months and keep buying more businesses to keep up market share. Time and time again the sons and daughters of the people who sold to them, set up in competition 100 yards down the road. They finally ran out of ideas last year and had to cut prices overnight by 25% Share price has tanked.
Anyone trying to corner the vet market will probably fail in a similar way.

 

[Dry Rot]

Thats a little overegged, Dignity did come over from the US and bought about 20%, price increase every 6 months and keep buying more businesses to keep up market share. Time and time again the sons and daughters of the people who sold to them, set up in competition 100 yards down the road. They finally ran out of ideas last year and had to cut prices overnight by 25% Share price has tanked.
Anyone trying to corner the vet market will probably fail in a similar way.

I'm afraid it doesn't work like that in the Scottish Highlands. But I hope it does!

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Shamelessly copied and pasted from Facebook;

David Thomson​

·
My letter to the RCVS
I am dictating this letter so my spelling and grammar may be incorrect for that I apologise.
It is with a heavy heart and a lot of depressive soul searching that I am sending this email to a governing body that I used to hold in great esteem.
I am David Thomson a graduate from London 1976 (2002017), and have seen changes in my once beloved profession that are really upsetting me.
I held my hand up in 1976 with pride which I then stated
“” " I PROMISE AND SOLEMNLY DECLARE that I will pursue the work of my profession with integrity and accept my responsibilities to the public, my clients, the profession and the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, and that, ABOVE ALL, my constant endeavour will be to ensure the health and welfare of animals committed to my care."””
In no way did I agree to or how can I condone the following reply I had from the RCVS.
“” You may also wish to review information from Chapter 9 of the RCVS Supporting Guidance which comments on this issue. This says:
“9.16 Where a client cannot afford to pay the fee for veterinary treatment, the veterinary surgeon may wish to discuss the availability of charitable services or assistance with the client.
9.17 All charities have a duty to apply their funds to make the best possible use of their resources. Clients should contact the charity to confirm their eligibility for assistance. The veterinary surgeon should ensure that the animal's condition is stabilised so that the animal is fit to travel to the charity, and provide details of the animal's condition, and any treatment already given, to the charity.
9.18 where the client is not eligible for the charitable assistance and no other form of financial assistance can be found, euthanasia may have to be the considered on economic grounds”.””
I work in Stoke on Trent and have done since November 1976.
The problems with our profession goes way back.
When I started I was only allowed to put a plaque up! Then came advertising being allowed so that that loudest advert attracted the most clients and so on.
Then insurance started with pet plan , and as an idea I thought that was excellent but with the caveat that I thought all practices would put their prices up to encourage insurance.
Specialisation was started in 80’s which meant that apart from ringing the colleges for advice previously , and doing the surgery ourselves, in some cases we could send the more intractable cases to these specialists.
Then came corporation of veterinary practices , and practices now being able to be run by NON VETS and then the corporates started to takeover
This was all the logical evolution of the guidance from the RCVS eroding the very fabric and core of the profession by way of handing over welfare of animals for corporate greed.
I am so unhappy that the veterinary profession , once beloved by the masses is now considered a profession of greed avarice and uncaring.
The first question in a consultation is now “ are you insured “ NOT “ how can I help you”
It says in 9-16 that the charities should help.
How? They are strapped for cash, the PDSA in our area has virtually closed its lists , there is no Blue Cross, the veterinary practices are taking on no more new clients , and the end result is the the RSPCA is more interested in prosecuting those people who fail to provide veterinary attention for their animals even though they cannot get into a practice.
The end result is a massive distrust of vets , their pricing and their interest in money rather welfare.
A client is now asked for their credit card number before treatment begins this is illogical as how does the client know how much is going to be charged this brings us back to the whole point of welfare.
There is an undercurrent now of a massive rejection of Veterinary Services and an underworld of treatment and purchasing of drugs is inevitably starting. There is a gentleman I’m told that you can’t get any drug whether it be tablet or injections or vaccinations and he is not a vet. Where is he getting these drugs from.
Why is it that we cannot purchase drugs at the same price or near to those of the Prescription companies? I tell you that for an example, Meticam cost me £45 plus but you can buy it online for £22. How do we compete .
Once prescriptions where given without charge , a compulsory mandatory edict from the VMD, but now have to be paid for can and be charged at whatever price the vet practice decides.
My son is a Ferrier and tell me of horrendous stories from his clients the most recent one being of a dog with a small quarter inch cut which had been taken to the vet they suggested it needed full anaesthetic to to be stitched, the owner refused and the practice agreed to sedate the dog and put in the two stitches and charge £540. I ask you is this reasonable.
Years ago, I said to then President of the Royal College, we are not Brain surgeons we treat animals and I think that has been forgotten and these price rises are just incredulous.
A local vet practice boarded a dog overnight at a cost which my wife and I could’ve stayed at the Savoy hotel for two nights. This begs the question where is the Royal College of Surgeons advising it’s Vet Surgeons on a mandate for providing welfare because how can a little old lady with her Yorkie be a bad owner because she can’t afford £1000 bill.
We have forgotten all of our standards. We have forgotten who we are, We have forgotten we used to sort things out without the need for specialist, but they were useful .
The modern Vet I am told is not competent to do a bitch under two years of graduation. How can that be? I was doing orthopaedic procedures within six months of qualifying and doing all emergency procedures, gastric torsions,fb removal etc etc.
Why is it that the young Vet who can do a bitch spay feels pressurised to refer a gastrotomy to remove a stone. I ask you, which is the more simple procedure.
This brings me to the point of specialisation and the problem it creates for veterinary surgeons, because now new graduates are not able to handle flesh and gain experience with routine non-elective surgeries we are becoming like Doctors in the human field whereby they see the first opinion cases but refer everything to consultants. This obviously increases costs.
This level of specialisation is exactly what the corporates are looking for as they will control the day-to-day running of all Vet practices eventually, and there will be no young Vets able to do any routine surgery as all will be referred at an extra cost of course.
What is the Royal College doing about this? What is the Royal College been doing for the last 30 years in not seeing what was happening, this new edict in September has only fuelled an increasingly annoyed general public to the extent now we are derided.
I’ve been working for over 45 years. My consultation fee is still only £15 and I make a profit. I have run a practice with 7 Vets 30 staff and deliberately kept the prices down in our area as the people of Stoke-on-Trent are getting into a desperate state to the point that they virtually can’t afford to have animals if they have to be treated. they are offered the” final solution” to be euthanised or as this is so expensive now for euthanasia the client will take matters into his own hands .
This is not an exaggeration even I have advised a professional dog trainer with a older dog with a broken leg to have it put to sleep rather than pay the £5000 to repair it as you can get seven puppies for that price.
Worse than this, I have x-rays of a dog involved in an RTA which fractured its pelvis. The dog was walking eating but in some discomfort x-rays were taken to show a small pelvic fracture which the Vet practice said would cost £9000 to repair. I Advised the client to rest the dog and give it Meticam, this dog is now fine, and when I showed these x-rays to a human orthopaedic consultant he questioned, why was it even necessary to consider surgery.
I have always gone by the mantra that it all surgery. You should first do no harm. It appears now that any surgery is done so that the profit can be made.
How can this state of affairs be stopped? Where is the leadership from the Royal College about the welfare of animals?.
I agree that you deal with standards, but how about dealing with welfare standards not just veterinary standards.
At one time Veterinary graduates used to come from parents in veterinary practices farming ,game, conservation and medical practitioners and Surgeons, those people had the means and the attitudes that are enabled them to overcome issues that faced them, it would appear that the new graduates are not the same mantra, but rather led by protocol and are prepared just to pass the buck on and this seems to be the way the Royal College wants it to go so the animals are seen by specialist who unfortunately have their own pricing structure, and so the poor client is just screwed .
We need to get back to the time when the Animal is what is important, not finance.
I have so much more I could say I could talk and explain so much more. I’ve been trying to say this for 10 years and especially in the last five years I’ve written to newspapers I’ve written to the Royal College but I am only this one small Voice and nobody is listening, soonwe will not have a Vet profession. It will all go underground. How can you expect people to pay these fees these exorbitant fees £40,000 for a fractured leg where does that come from and how are these fees sustainable in the long run?
I am 73 years old now I’ve seen it all and I am so depressed. It is affected my marriage and my health, but I will not retire while I can still help those people who cannot afford these so-called veterinary fees as my conscience will not allow me to stop working .
When I raised my hand. I did not say I didn’t care, do you?
David Thomson MRCVS

 

[An Gof]

One of the best posts that I have read on TFF for a long time. Thank you for putting it here.
I hope David Thomson is contributing to the current Government investigation into veterinary pricing.

 

[yellowbelly]

Shamelessly copied and pasted from Facebook;

David Thomson​

·
My letter to the RCVS
I am dictating this letter so my spelling and grammar may be incorrect for that I apologise.
It is with a heavy heart and a lot of depressive soul searching that I am sending this email to a governing body that I used to hold in great esteem.
I am David Thomson a graduate from London 1976 (2002017), and have seen changes in my once beloved profession that are really upsetting me.
I held my hand up in 1976 with pride which I then stated
“” " I PROMISE AND SOLEMNLY DECLARE that I will pursue the work of my profession with integrity and accept my responsibilities to the public, my clients, the profession and the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, and that, ABOVE ALL, my constant endeavour will be to ensure the health and welfare of animals committed to my care."””
In no way did I agree to or how can I condone the following reply I had from the RCVS.
“” You may also wish to review information from Chapter 9 of the RCVS Supporting Guidance which comments on this issue. This says:
“9.16 Where a client cannot afford to pay the fee for veterinary treatment, the veterinary surgeon may wish to discuss the availability of charitable services or assistance with the client.
9.17 All charities have a duty to apply their funds to make the best possible use of their resources. Clients should contact the charity to confirm their eligibility for assistance. The veterinary surgeon should ensure that the animal's condition is stabilised so that the animal is fit to travel to the charity, and provide details of the animal's condition, and any treatment already given, to the charity.
9.18 where the client is not eligible for the charitable assistance and no other form of financial assistance can be found, euthanasia may have to be the considered on economic grounds”.””
I work in Stoke on Trent and have done since November 1976.
The problems with our profession goes way back.
When I started I was only allowed to put a plaque up! Then came advertising being allowed so that that loudest advert attracted the most clients and so on.
Then insurance started with pet plan , and as an idea I thought that was excellent but with the caveat that I thought all practices would put their prices up to encourage insurance.
Specialisation was started in 80’s which meant that apart from ringing the colleges for advice previously , and doing the surgery ourselves, in some cases we could send the more intractable cases to these specialists.
Then came corporation of veterinary practices , and practices now being able to be run by NON VETS and then the corporates started to takeover
This was all the logical evolution of the guidance from the RCVS eroding the very fabric and core of the profession by way of handing over welfare of animals for corporate greed.
I am so unhappy that the veterinary profession , once beloved by the masses is now considered a profession of greed avarice and uncaring.
The first question in a consultation is now “ are you insured “ NOT “ how can I help you”
It says in 9-16 that the charities should help.
How? They are strapped for cash, the PDSA in our area has virtually closed its lists , there is no Blue Cross, the veterinary practices are taking on no more new clients , and the end result is the the RSPCA is more interested in prosecuting those people who fail to provide veterinary attention for their animals even though they cannot get into a practice.
The end result is a massive distrust of vets , their pricing and their interest in money rather welfare.
A client is now asked for their credit card number before treatment begins this is illogical as how does the client know how much is going to be charged this brings us back to the whole point of welfare.
There is an undercurrent now of a massive rejection of Veterinary Services and an underworld of treatment and purchasing of drugs is inevitably starting. There is a gentleman I’m told that you can’t get any drug whether it be tablet or injections or vaccinations and he is not a vet. Where is he getting these drugs from.
Why is it that we cannot purchase drugs at the same price or near to those of the Prescription companies? I tell you that for an example, Meticam cost me £45 plus but you can buy it online for £22. How do we compete .
Once prescriptions where given without charge , a compulsory mandatory edict from the VMD, but now have to be paid for can and be charged at whatever price the vet practice decides.
My son is a Ferrier and tell me of horrendous stories from his clients the most recent one being of a dog with a small quarter inch cut which had been taken to the vet they suggested it needed full anaesthetic to to be stitched, the owner refused and the practice agreed to sedate the dog and put in the two stitches and charge £540. I ask you is this reasonable.
Years ago, I said to then President of the Royal College, we are not Brain surgeons we treat animals and I think that has been forgotten and these price rises are just incredulous.
A local vet practice boarded a dog overnight at a cost which my wife and I could’ve stayed at the Savoy hotel for two nights. This begs the question where is the Royal College of Surgeons advising it’s Vet Surgeons on a mandate for providing welfare because how can a little old lady with her Yorkie be a bad owner because she can’t afford £1000 bill.
We have forgotten all of our standards. We have forgotten who we are, We have forgotten we used to sort things out without the need for specialist, but they were useful .
The modern Vet I am told is not competent to do a bitch under two years of graduation. How can that be? I was doing orthopaedic procedures within six months of qualifying and doing all emergency procedures, gastric torsions,fb removal etc etc.
Why is it that the young Vet who can do a bitch spay feels pressurised to refer a gastrotomy to remove a stone. I ask you, which is the more simple procedure.
This brings me to the point of specialisation and the problem it creates for veterinary surgeons, because now new graduates are not able to handle flesh and gain experience with routine non-elective surgeries we are becoming like Doctors in the human field whereby they see the first opinion cases but refer everything to consultants. This obviously increases costs.
This level of specialisation is exactly what the corporates are looking for as they will control the day-to-day running of all Vet practices eventually, and there will be no young Vets able to do any routine surgery as all will be referred at an extra cost of course.
What is the Royal College doing about this? What is the Royal College been doing for the last 30 years in not seeing what was happening, this new edict in September has only fuelled an increasingly annoyed general public to the extent now we are derided.
I’ve been working for over 45 years. My consultation fee is still only £15 and I make a profit. I have run a practice with 7 Vets 30 staff and deliberately kept the prices down in our area as the people of Stoke-on-Trent are getting into a desperate state to the point that they virtually can’t afford to have animals if they have to be treated. they are offered the” final solution” to be euthanised or as this is so expensive now for euthanasia the client will take matters into his own hands .
This is not an exaggeration even I have advised a professional dog trainer with a older dog with a broken leg to have it put to sleep rather than pay the £5000 to repair it as you can get seven puppies for that price.
Worse than this, I have x-rays of a dog involved in an RTA which fractured its pelvis. The dog was walking eating but in some discomfort x-rays were taken to show a small pelvic fracture which the Vet practice said would cost £9000 to repair. I Advised the client to rest the dog and give it Meticam, this dog is now fine, and when I showed these x-rays to a human orthopaedic consultant he questioned, why was it even necessary to consider surgery.
I have always gone by the mantra that it all surgery. You should first do no harm. It appears now that any surgery is done so that the profit can be made.
How can this state of affairs be stopped? Where is the leadership from the Royal College about the welfare of animals?.
I agree that you deal with standards, but how about dealing with welfare standards not just veterinary standards.
At one time Veterinary graduates used to come from parents in veterinary practices farming ,game, conservation and medical practitioners and Surgeons, those people had the means and the attitudes that are enabled them to overcome issues that faced them, it would appear that the new graduates are not the same mantra, but rather led by protocol and are prepared just to pass the buck on and this seems to be the way the Royal College wants it to go so the animals are seen by specialist who unfortunately have their own pricing structure, and so the poor client is just screwed .
We need to get back to the time when the Animal is what is important, not finance.
I have so much more I could say I could talk and explain so much more. I’ve been trying to say this for 10 years and especially in the last five years I’ve written to newspapers I’ve written to the Royal College but I am only this one small Voice and nobody is listening, soonwe will not have a Vet profession. It will all go underground. How can you expect people to pay these fees these exorbitant fees £40,000 for a fractured leg where does that come from and how are these fees sustainable in the long run?
I am 73 years old now I’ve seen it all and I am so depressed. It is affected my marriage and my health, but I will not retire while I can still help those people who cannot afford these so-called veterinary fees as my conscience will not allow me to stop working .
When I raised my hand. I did not say I didn’t care, do you?
David Thomson MRCVS

At least there's still one vet left in the country who's not a money grabbing charlatan.

 

[Dry Rot]

There always used to be a clear difference between a trade and a profession.