Dairy farmers help me!!

@Bossfarmer
Plenty in this thread have told you to take a look at one or two units nearby. I'm not sure exactly where you are but fairly high up north I think. Here is two for you..

I was up in Elgin for two days over the weekend , went to one unit Dean Anderson Plewlands farm ex dairy, sold the 350 cows ten years ago, rotary parlour and all, former Gold cup winner on 3x day milking 11,000 litres plus. Now keeps over 600 sucklers. Labour was his big problem apparently . Smart place and very switched on.

Also someone mentioned Innes Bros by Nairn , is it 1500 cows housed 24/7.

My advise to you is go and see them both.
ive been to innes recently hence a reason i want to get into it very impressive
 

bigw

Member
Location
Scotland
interesting i may head up one weekend im amazed they manage to keep 600 sucklers on a farm that had 350 dairy, normally you need a lot more ground for sucklers?

They run a few thousand acres over a couple of different units. A lot of plewlands is light and sandy and they will keep cows out most of the year. The innes's would be all foreign labour which our dairy engineer says they are finding it more difficult to get. Another north east farm dispersing next week in Carlisle. Really decent cows if anyone s needing.

https://harrisonandhetherington.co.uk/whats-on2/
 
They run a few thousand acres over a couple of different units. A lot of plewlands is light and sandy and they will keep cows out most of the year. The innes's would be all foreign labour which our dairy engineer says they are finding it more difficult to get. Another north east farm dispersing next week in Carlisle. Really decent cows if anyone s needing.

https://harrisonandhetherington.co.uk/whats-on2/
Can't find the decent cows on the catalogue
 

Penmoel

Member
They run a few thousand acres over a couple of different units. A lot of plewlands is light and sandy and they will keep cows out most of the year. /

1000 ha over 10 holdings they said on Saturday, calving sucklers now and turn out a day old onto that light ground, clean and healthy.
Said that figures on dairy did not add up in the end, too much labour costs and not reliable apart from the couple of regular lads
 
REALITY CHECK!

I've recently had my benchmarking figures from AHBD.
Up till June 16 the 12 monthly profit for one in four all year round dairy farmers with an average of 250 cows was a LOSS of 23ppl

The average of all such farms was 0.1ppl profit.

Things get better in the year up to June 2017.
One in four [25%] made a LOSS of 16.9ppl
Average profit of 3.1ppl

Those are realistic net margins. They explain why so many large and small units are shutting up shop while those with land and enough family labour [unpaid] have and are expanding.

The main difference between my own profit and the top 25% average is purely down to the 3.5 ppl lower milk price we get here in West Wales according to the figures from AHBD

The figures for the North of Scotland will be similarly affected by a low milk price I imagine, partly the result of both distance and buyer competition [lack of].

These figures do not include the Basic Payment Scheme income, which you get regardless of whether you milk or not and which really makes very little difference to the bottom 40%'s viability.

It is not safe to assume that any new enterprise with new staff will be anywhere above average for the first three years in technical performance. Safer to assume around the top end of the bottom 25%

Any profit generated will be taxable BEFORE trying to repay overhead costs such as building loans. Losses will of course not be taxed but neither will they repay debts.

I don't doubt that for a second, but if you are making a 16ppl loss, why in Gods name would you continue in it, subsidy or not. That is beyond crazy.

In those kinds of statistics are we basically saying 25% of the industry needs to do something else?!
 
Personally I wouldnt be going anywhere near the guys who are housed 365 and milking in rotaries. The cost of getting into that from scratch will be massive, parlour, sheds, slurry storage, silage pits, straights shed.

Far simpler to look at a basic setup grazing as much as possible, block calving feeding decent silage and as little cake as you can get away with.

At least that way if it goes belly up in a year you will be half a million in the hole rather then 2mil.
 

More to life

Member
Location
Somerset
Personally I wouldnt be going anywhere near the guys who are housed 365 and milking in rotaries. The cost of getting into that from scratch will be massive, parlour, sheds, slurry storage, silage pits, straights shed.

Far simpler to look at a basic setup grazing as much as possible, block calving feeding decent silage and as little cake as you can get away with.

At least that way if it goes belly up in a year you will be half a million in the hole rather then 2mil.
You'd need a darn good reason to go high input when starting from scratch and I can't think of one.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
I don't doubt that for a second, but if you are making a 16ppl loss, why in Gods name would you continue in it, subsidy or not. That is beyond crazy.

In those kinds of statistics are we basically saying 25% of the industry needs to do something else?!

In fact if those figures are representative of the whole industry, and I've no reason to doubt them even though those losses are fantastic and eye-watering, it seems like about one producer in every two made losses for the two years up to June 2017 and almost certainly a major negative cash flow.

The big question has to be just how many of us are willing to subject our businesses and families to this again as the price of milk inevitably drops again as most predict it will again, very soon. Possibly as soon as next Spring.
 

Penmoel

Member
ive been to innes recently hence a reason i want to get into it very impressive


Another one which may interest you as an alternative Wester Manbeem, Elgin, we did not manage to get there because of flight difficulties, I understand they milk about 120 organic on two robots.
 
.

The big question has to be just how many of us are willing to subject our businesses and families to this again as the price of milk inevitably drops again as most predict it will again, very soon. Possibly as soon as next Spring.

Simple solution- stress test the cash flow with a milk price of 15 ppl for three years out of the next five. If the result is still positive then you might have a viable proposition, just so long as you don’t have a TB breakdown, or an attack of lungworms re-infection syndrome or something akin to BSE rears it’s head.
 
In fact if those figures are representative of the whole industry, and I've no reason to doubt them even though those losses are fantastic and eye-watering, it seems like about one producer in every two made losses for the two years up to June 2017 and almost certainly a major negative cash flow.

The big question has to be just how many of us are willing to subject our businesses and families to this again as the price of milk inevitably drops again as most predict it will again, very soon. Possibly as soon as next Spring.

IM up for it. you need a system that is at least net worth neutral in the bad yrs and able to reinvest/put cash away in the good yrs whilst paying yourself.
I know I'm biased but in the above regard I feel block calvers of what ever persuasion are far more nimble than confinement farmers.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 77 43.5%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 62 35.0%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 28 15.8%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 4 2.3%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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