DD spring barley into HLS grass at end of agreement

[Mark C]

Friend has about 80 acres coming out of HLS in the new year. The plan is to get it back into arable. It's been down to grass for the 10 year term and mown for hay once a year in August. It's mainly on sand ( hence why it was put into els originally )

He's asked me to direct drill it with my Versadrill ( legs removed) so basically a Moore unidrill.

Suggested WBF wire worm seed treatment , my main concern is the grass seed bank in the soil as there would have been a huge seed return every year

Thoughts .......

 

[spin cycle]

i'dve thought with little/no soil disturbance any grass that chit's/grows would easily be controlled by axial?....i assume round up pre drill?

 

[SilliamWhale]

Can you spray now and then again in spring?

Drill with fert. I dont find wireworm the biggest issue in the world

 

[Mark C]

Don't think can spray until January as if still under agreement

Fert down the spout not possible

 

[SilliamWhale]

Id spray in janand glyphosate pray post drilling.

Spread N a few days before drilling. This crop may not be the greatest but you should reap the reward later with better soil structure for future crops

 

[Adeptandy]

I'll follow this with interest, I have 130 acre coming out next Nov after 10 years of hay/cattle/sheep on it.

No fert has been applied over the 10 years I'm informed

 

[mikep]

What category was it under as with some such as creating diversity you may be stuffed for ploughing out as is desirable pp. In the same boat and getting worried.

 

[Adeptandy]

I'll have to check as I've taken it on after it was established

 

[ollie989898]

You can plough up anything. The definitions of permanent grass vary between the various agencies.

RPA- if you were to plough ground and reseed it every year for more than 5 years- that's PP in their book.

If you want to plough up grassland, you just need your agro to do an environmental impact assessment, and also have records of anything you have done on the grass in the meantime- ie mowing, fertiliser, any herbicide spraying, harrowing, applying dung etc etc.

As such very very little pasture in the UK would be true 'permanent pasture' of the kind Natural England et al want to preserve- IE the stuff that is so far removed from real production that you can't do much with it anyway.

Regarding direct drilling spring barley. If you really really must, then I would use dressed seed for wireworm and frit fly, spray off at least a month before drilling, keep seed rate up and hope for the best. I suspect birds might be your biggest issue.

What you don't want to do is spray it off, then try and drill 2 weeks later the barley won't much like trying to establish into a mat of decaying filth.

You won't kill meadowgrass or much else with Axial I am afraid, ryegrass you can kill fine though. BLWs are no problem- Ally and Starane here.

Provided conditions are good and seed to soil contact is ok, the stuff should grow, its spring barley- a domesticated weed.

Hope this helps.

 

[neilo]

As such very very little pasture in the UK would be true 'permanent pasture' of the kind Natural England et al want to preserve- IE the stuff that is so far removed from real production that you can't do much with it anyway.

Have you traveled outside Somerset much? There's a huge area of true 'permanent pasture' in the UK, just not in the predominantly arable and dairying areas.

 

[ollie989898]

Have you traveled outside Somerset much? There's a huge area of true 'permanent pasture' in the UK, just not in the predominantly arable and dairying areas.

I meant permanent pasture as a proportion of the actual productive pasture there is about.

Obviously all the stuff on the hills and cliffs etc is PP and will be forever and a day, I was trying illustrate that most farmers need not be too worried about ploughing stuff up fearing is it PP just because it has been grass for 5 years or more.

 

[mikep]

I meant permanent pasture as a proportion of the actual productive pasture there is about.

Obviously all the stuff on the hills and cliffs etc is PP and will be forever and a day, I was trying illustrate that most farmers need not be too worried about ploughing stuff up fearing is it PP just because it has been grass for 5 years or more.

As I said it depends on the category it was aided under. With arable reversion or recreating a mixed sward you have a target of a diversified sward so ergo you have a desirable low input grass with target species in. You are not allowed to plough it up as either firstly you ploughed up a desirable feature or secondly you did not create a desirable feature so they want their money back. Catch 22.

 

[DRC]

I'm planning on ploughing my HLS arable reversion fields in the spring, and growing maize. Any problems with that?

 

[mikep]

I'm planning on ploughing my HLS arable reversion fields in the spring, and growing maize. Any problems with that?

See above.

 

[Jellyfarm]

Likewise, we have over 100 acres of HLS arable reversion in about 7th year. 'special seed ' was used and no sprays or fert since. It is all on reclaimed land following gravel extraction so not in a hurry to put it back to arable, but what is the future for this?
J

 

[DRC]

Likewise, we have over 100 acres of HLS arable reversion in about 7th year. 'special seed ' was used and no sprays or fert since. It is all on reclaimed land following gravel extraction so not in a hurry to put it back to arable, but what is the future for this?
J

NE were trying to make it a condition of any new agreement that we retained our arable reversion, but said that the payment would only be £30 acre, as it wasn't being reverted anymore, but was now pasture. This compared to the £120 acre we were getting.
I said I couldn't afford to do this, with rent to pay, so have applied for mid tier without it.
We did get catchment officer approval by offering some other land for reversion and leaving margins in etc, so just waiting to see what happens.

 

[neilo]

Likewise, we have over 100 acres of HLS arable reversion in about 7th year. 'special seed ' was used and no sprays or fert since. It is all on reclaimed land following gravel extraction so not in a hurry to put it back to arable, but what is the future for this?
J

If you are no longer being paid on it, is it possible to start 'improving' it by spraying/fertilising/liming/overseeding? Would it then lose it's 'habitat/species rich' label after a year or so, and just become plain old pp, with more options available for future land use?

 

[Badshot]

If you are no longer being paid on it, is it possible to start 'improving' it by spraying/fertilising/liming/overseeding? Would it then lose it's 'habitat/species rich' label after a year or so, and just become plain old pp, with more options available for future land use?

Nail on head. Do some improvements first. Dose of blw herbicide will clear enough species no doubt.

 

[BSH]

Spray in new year and expect to have to spray again at or just after drilling. Can you do spring beans or perhaps peas if light land? Might be better than barley. Maybe spring oats instead of barley?