DD turnips into permanent pasture without glyphosate

Warnesworth

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Chipping Norton
My neighbour has similar thoughts of planting Stubble turnips after a 1st cut of Italian Ryegrass silage that is on the deck now.
My thoughts are that he ought to let the grass green up again before he puts Roundup on it or it won’t work.

What sort of rate of 360 Roundup do you think he should use?

He wants to DD it into the grass.

Could he DD it, then spray it up to a week later?

Any ideas @Warnesworth ?
Apologies @Two Tone, I didn't get a notification that you'd tagged me in this one and I only found it by complete accident.
As others have said the grass will out compete the turnips and a robust rate of glyphosate needs to be used if mature grassland but I'm sure you know that anyway. A few people have tried this and the results have not been startling if DD'ed. I think the decaying biomass really deprives the brassica of nutrition which leads to poor establishment and slow growth. Therefore a robust nitrogen rate at drilling is probably required.

Its a great idea though and I can see the potential in all sorts of places. I think @Old Spot has been trialling drilling all sorts of 'cover crop' mixes into his grassland for autumn/winter grazing. Perhaps he has some ideas?
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
I am thinking of getting 4 acres of old grass land Direct drilled with turnips after second cut silage.
Winters are wet here and land wouldn’t be the lightest but this would be one of my driest fields in winter. Never grazed a forage crop over winter here before.

I am wondering would I get away with not burning off the grass if I got the turnips in as soon as the grass is lifted off the field? My thinking is if there was a grass bottom in it then it should carry a lot better in wet times, but maybe the grass regrowth would smother out the turnips?
It would likely need a few runs with a grass harrow before drilling to get the old thatch out of the bottom a bit.
No, Waste of seed time and diesal, you can , however , plough without spraying glyphosate and sow .
Btw The land type is either suitable for winter forage grazing crops or not, not even an expensive drill will change that.
 

Old Spot

Member
Location
Glos
Yes I have been experimenting!
I have had great success blowing brassica based cover crops into standing cereals (even with baling the straw).
I have tried white millet, clovers, chicory, barley oats etc into established grassland.
it is not economic to do, some grows but only in the bare patches.
grass into grass with clovers in establish most of the time, seed is cheap compared to recreational tillage.
I have my own Moore drill, on occasions I have drilled a field 3 times to get a good ley.
my latest try is wild bird mix into wheat and grass, no spray (we have a wild garden type thing going on)
drilled 8 days ago, sunflowers, triticale, carrots and brassicas up and looking healthy.
as answer to OP brassicas get out competed In old grassland.
has anyone had success with other types of seed, pasture cropping is such a great idea.
PS I know it’s a sin but a cultivator drill will probably be a better bet.
 

Andyt880

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Co. Down
No, Waste of seed time and diesal, you can , however , plough without spraying glyphosate and sow .
Btw The land type is either suitable for winter forage grazing crops or not, not even an expensive drill will change that.
I have no issue using glyphosate on it, just asked the question with the thought of keeping the grass for ground cover when grazing.
The land is good and not heavy compared to some a few miles from here. I’m in NI and our winters are very wet, it’s more our winter climate that doesn’t suit winter forage grazing than my land, but i haven’t room inside for all my ewes this year so they are going to have to stand out in a wet field somewhere, I just thought they might as well have something to graze on as well and I would like to reseed the field anyway so thought I could make good use of it for a winter before ploughing in the spring
 

Derrick Hughes

Member
Location
Ceredigion
I have no issue using glyphosate on it, just asked the question with the thought of keeping the grass for ground cover when grazing.
The land is good and not heavy compared to some a few miles from here. I’m in NI and our winters are very wet, it’s more our winter climate that doesn’t suit winter forage grazing than my land, but i haven’t room inside for all my ewes this year so they are going to have to stand out in a wet field somewhere, I just thought they might as well have something to graze on as well and I would like to reseed the field anyway so thought I could make good use of it for a winter before ploughing in the spring
You are losing the benefits if you direct drill then plough in the spring
 

Andyt880

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Co. Down
You are losing the benefits if you direct drill then plough in the spring
What benefits? I’ve never direct drilled a crop and the plough is still the main tool in reseeding in this part of the world so I know nothing about it.
If I was reseeding the field straight back into grass in the autumn I would be ploughing it anyway.
 

Derrick Hughes

Member
Location
Ceredigion
What benefits? I’ve never direct drilled a crop and the plough is still the main tool in reseeding in this part of the world so I know nothing about it.
If I was reseeding the field straight back into grass in the autumn I would be ploughing it anyway.
My thoughts .if you spray now you kill all weeds that are growing including docks , you drill rape or turnips , you keep the soil structure intact , from my experience I can assure you this will carry stock in wet weather far better , next spring your field should be good to go with the drill , if there is some grass or weeds you can give that a low rate roundup or even give it alight harrow to encourage anY weeds to germinate before spraying.
You decide to plough in the spring
You will bury a lot of your firtility out of reach of the new grass seeds and plough up all those weed seed down below along with a lot of stones if you have them

Believe me , I have ploughed for 40 years , if you do it right you won't go back to ploughing
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
What benefits? I’ve never direct drilled a crop and the plough is still the main tool in reseeding in this part of the world so I know nothing about it.
If I was reseeding the field straight back into grass in the autumn I would be ploughing it anyway.

Your field will definitely carry stock better overwinter if you haven’t loosened it all with a plough, even with the decaying thatch.

I agree with Derek, in that I would never plough all the nutrients down before reseeding. However, unless your land is as light as @Bury the Trash ‘s must be, you will usually need to scratch the surface with shallow cultivation of some sort in the Spring. It’s very rare I could DD into anything grazed over winter here with sheep (& I wouldn’t entertain keeping cattle out here), but as we are wet in the winter and on clay soils, I guess we would have what some might consider ‘unsuitable’ land.🤐 Works well though and has improved the soil OM no end.
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
Your field will definitely carry stock better overwinter if you haven’t loosened it all with a plough, even with the decaying thatch.

I agree with Derek, in that I would never plough all the nutrients down before reseeding. However, unless your land is as light as @Bury the Trash ‘s must be, you will usually need to scratch the surface with shallow cultivation of some sort in the Spring. It’s very rare I could DD into anything grazed over winter here with sheep (& I wouldn’t entertain keeping cattle out here), but as we are wet in the winter and on clay soils, I guess we would have what some might consider ‘unsuitable’ land.🤐 Works well though and has improved the soil OM no end.
Yes you know what im mean,like if the ground isnt suitable for it then well it isnt theres no 2 ways about it no direct drill will change geology or lie of the land. which is the first thing you need to access when you start farming a particular farm or piece of land, almost common sense really.
not quite sure why its thought that fertility is buried when ploughing, s fertility is down under anyway, not ontop roots grow and spread out in under not on the surface,thats again common sense,doesnt need a story teller or phd in science of the soil or a clever consultant type who may also be selling something,
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
We have a lot of that here, but slowly sorting some of it. It does carry stock well when it’s wet though, unlike reseeded ground, so it has a value.

It will want a full rate of 5-6L/ha of glyphosate (in rainwater/conditioned water, not hard/mains) ime, and some will still try to come back. If I want a clean kill I put full rate on as above, then leave a month, before applying another 2L to finish off the regrowth.

Wow! That is a serious chemical attack!

Mind I screwed up last year with regrowth that caught me out ;)
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
Assuming it is suitable for winter use ...big enough Run back is very important

Good growing turf run back ,part of the field as well so there's no gateways to trough through.way better for the sheep.
often its simple things that make a difference.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Yea I was thinking or leaving a strip of grass around the outside, there is also one big hedge which gives good shelter, I’ll leave the width of the sprayer up along it and I would graze it so that they could also get back to it

Contrary to above, like putting ring feeders out, a small strip will give them a place to congregate which will turn into a mud bath, particularly on heavy soil in a wet winter.
In such circumstances you would need an area as big as the cropped area, without a gateway to file through constantly, and it will be churned up and trashed by Spring.

Mine get a very narrow strip on the headland, just to satisfy the FA boxtickers, as I don’t want them to use it. They stay MUCH cleaner if they eat their crop and lie on/near the freshly grazed area, not wandering back & forth to a common lieing area.
 

hendrebc

Member
Livestock Farmer
I've tried stubble turnip and rape into grass without spraying and much like everyone else said it grows and looks well and then it sort of disappeared.
But... I did have some really impressive turnips growing on the headlands that were all grass and hadn't been sprayed at all. Some seed must have fallen out if the drill when I was turning round and it grew in the grass. Now if only I could work out why it grew so well by accident when I tried on purpose and it failed :unsure:
 

Jerry

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Devon
Drilled Friday and up today…

Flea beetle watch started.
15213CCC-7A43-4809-9FE3-53696ED44407.jpeg
EC7CEBB2-6883-48E5-9E6F-E9E77BE0952D.jpeg
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 77 43.5%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 62 35.0%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 28 15.8%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 4 2.3%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,285
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top