Dealing with depression - suicidal thoughts - Join the conversation (including helpline details)

[Christoph1945]

As lad I remember we had a wood/coke fired Rayburn in the kitchen that stank of sulphur dioxide, an open fire in the living room and a paraffin heater in the hall that was never lit. I think dad ran to some electric oil filled tubular heaters when we were babies but that was it. The kitchen and living room were usually reasonably warm but every other room was glacial through the winter. We kept the apples out of the orchard in the back bedroom and they kept good as fresh picked right round to April. It was the perfect cold store. I still live here. We had central heating installed in 1996 but still only heat 2 rooms regularly, but maybe heat the best room and dining room at Christmas. To heat the whole house is simply unaffordable. We rely on a wood burning stove in place of the open hearth fire. We never heat any of the bedrooms. The walls here are 2 feet thick uninsulated limestone with no damp course. They make the perfect heat sink.
And can I change? Will I change? Probably not. We are supposed to be “making the most” of the time the Mrs has left. So I have allocated a couple of days in the working week to “go out” and look like we are “making the most” of it. So we will go to the seaside or somewhere else where people go in search of something that quite frankly eludes me.
This cancer stress has highlighted fault lines in our marriage to be honest. It has accentuated weaknesses in her mental state and mine and neither of us have come out of it looking very honourable.
I’m torn between keeping the business afloat and “making the most” of the time she has left. If the business founders when I take my eye off the ball then we will hardly be able to “make the most” of anything. It’s not like there is some benevolent god up there refilling my bank account if I take a lot of time off, People don’t seem to understand that, except myself and myself alone. But hey ho, shoulder to the wheel and hope for the best.

What is the prognosis for your wife's illness and how much time have the medics specified that she may have left? Perhaps you both have sufficient time to fall in love with each other again!

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

As lad I remember we had a wood/coke fired Rayburn in the kitchen that stank of sulphur dioxide, an open fire in the living room and a paraffin heater in the hall that was never lit. I think dad ran to some electric oil filled tubular heaters when we were babies but that was it. The kitchen and living room were usually reasonably warm but every other room was glacial through the winter. We kept the apples out of the orchard in the back bedroom and they kept good as fresh picked right round to April. It was the perfect cold store. I still live here. We had central heating installed in 1996 but still only heat 2 rooms regularly, but maybe heat the best room and dining room at Christmas. To heat the whole house is simply unaffordable. We rely on a wood burning stove in place of the open hearth fire. We never heat any of the bedrooms. The walls here are 2 feet thick uninsulated limestone with no damp course. They make the perfect heat sink.
And can I change? Will I change? Probably not. We are supposed to be “making the most” of the time the Mrs has left. So I have allocated a couple of days in the working week to “go out” and look like we are “making the most” of it. So we will go to the seaside or somewhere else where people go in search of something that quite frankly eludes me.
This cancer stress has highlighted fault lines in our marriage to be honest. It has accentuated weaknesses in her mental state and mine and neither of us have come out of it looking very honourable.
I’m torn between keeping the business afloat and “making the most” of the time she has left. If the business founders when I take my eye off the ball then we will hardly be able to “make the most” of anything. It’s not like there is some benevolent god up there refilling my bank account if I take a lot of time off, People don’t seem to understand that, except myself and myself alone. But hey ho, shoulder to the wheel and hope for the best.

Many farm businesses are in that exact same situation, even if they haven't realised it.

Many farmers get all their satisfaction from just being on the farm (and have zero outside interests, a huge mental health problem when they have to cease farming) but many wives do NOT. Those fault lines are usually just buried...

You are far from alone.

 

[cows sh#t me to tears]

Many farm businesses are in that exact same situation, even if they haven't realised it.

Many farmers get all their satisfaction from just being on the farm (and have zero outside interests, a huge mental health problem when they have to cease farming) but many wives do NOT. Those fault lines are usually just buried...

You are far from alone.

Very far...... That's why men's sheds were started here in small rural towns. Gave/gives ex farmers a place to go to just talk shìť and do something...

 

[Christoph1945]

Very far...... That's why men's sheds were started here in small rural towns. Gave/gives ex farmers a place to go to just talk shìť and do something...

Last of the summer wine, eh?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Last of the summer wine, eh?

But with bigger toys....

 

[Christoph1945]

But with bigger toys....

And bigger hearts!

 

[Christoph1945]

Take a man's farm and you take a man's identity!

Take a man's job and you break a man's heart!

I once heard a pentecostalist complain that some church members were not holding up their hands to praise God; sadly, the guy just didn't realise how difficult it is to raise your hands when you are struggling to hold the pieces of a broken heart together.

I remember George, a kindly old foreman, who took retirement after a lifetime with our company and within months we were following his coffin into church as a cold wind blew dahlia petals from a wreath and onto the path and lawn. Strangely, I have no recollection of the service!

 

[DrWazzock]

What is the prognosis for your wife's illness and how much time have the medics specified that she may have left? Perhaps you both have sufficient time to fall in love with each other again!

Maybe months, maybe a few years. Positivity will get you through, the surgeon said. Pity you can’t order it online by the pallet load. The Mrs is like a completely flat battery mentally. I’ve just listened to her for 4 hours ranting. Tried to reason. Tried to show optimism and positivity. But no, it falls on completely deaf ears. Relatives have tried. Her parents have tried, counsellors and psychologists have tried. They can all just shrug their shoulders and walk away thinking thank god I’m not stuck with that 24/7. But I can’t and won’t walk away. In sickness and in health and all that. The mental damage is far worse than the cancer. She might well live longer than I do. But if she spends the time in self inflicted mental blame then reslly what does she want to live for. Anyway going to the seaside for distraction. God knows we need some.

 

[DrWazzock]

I’ll tell you what though. I’m glad I’m in partnership with my brother. I’d be completely screwed over on my own with this. Luckily he’s big enough and blunt enough to tell certain people to bugger off who have been trying to take advantage of my helpful nature at a low time in certain commercial arrangements.

 

[Christoph1945]

Maybe months, maybe a few years. Positivity will get you through, the surgeon said. Pity you can’t order it online by the pallet load. The Mrs is like a completely flat battery mentally. I’ve just listened to her for 4 hours ranting. Tried to reason. Tried to show optimism and positivity. But no, it falls on completely deaf ears. Relatives have tried. Her parents have tried, counsellors and psychologists have tried. They can all just shrug their shoulders and walk away thinking thank god I’m not stuck with that 24/7. But I can’t and won’t walk away. In sickness and in health and all that. The mental damage is far worse than the cancer. She might well live longer than I do. But if she spends the time in self inflicted mental blame then reslly what does she want to live for. Anyway going to the seaside for distraction. God knows we need some.

I and nobody else can possibly know exactly how it is for you and for your wife, but we can certainly empathise, as best we can. Why the seaside I wonder? What will the seaside visit consist of; a day trip, or perhaps a week?

The sights, sounds, and aromas of the seaside may trigger long forgotten emotions and memories that you will both find helpful for your situation.

 

[DrWazzock]

I and nobody else can possibly know exactly how it is for you and for your wife, but we can certainly empathise, as best we can. Why the seaside I wonder? What will the seaside visit consist of; a day trip, or perhaps a week?

The sights, sounds, and aromas of the seaside may trigger long forgotten emotions and memories that you will both find helpful for your situation.

Well we went for a day at the seaside. Chapel St Leonard’s. A nice modest lunch at the North Sea observatory. A nithering East wind but enjoyable. Then we went along the coast and walked along the shore of Hutoft Bank. Actually very refreshing to be away from the farm. The Mrs is still going on a bit but a bit less than she was. Another nice cafe at the car terrace of Hutoft Bank.
Maybe we’ll compile a guidebook to the eating places and visitor attractions of Lincolnshire.

 

[Christoph1945]

Well we went for a day at the seaside. Chapel St Leonard’s. A nice modest lunch at the North Sea observatory. A nithering East wind but enjoyable. Then we went along the coast and walked along the shore of Hutoft Bank. Actually very refreshing to be away from the farm. The Mrs is still going on a bit but a bit less than she was. Another nice cafe at the car terrace of Hutoft Bank.
Maybe we’ll compile a guidebook to the eating places and visitor attractions of Lincolnshire.

Don't forget to advise us wheelchair pushers to avoid 'Steephill' in the city!

 

[onthehoof]

I’ll tell you what though. I’m glad I’m in partnership with my brother. I’d be completely screwed over on my own with this. Luckily he’s big enough and blunt enough to tell certain people to bugger off who have been trying to take advantage of my helpful nature at a low time in certain commercial arrangements.

Doc, you hinted at your own health issues, have you been checked out? your wife saying she wished she'd been earlier etc, apologies not prying, just think I should go but been putting off with covid etc, apparently can't get an appointment for 6 weeks, just got a nagging ache

 

[wrenbird]

I do sometimes wonder if some of the phrases and terminology used to describe how an individual is supposed to cope with a diagnosis of cancer are just a bit strange and ultimately unhelpful.
You are supposed to be like a warrior and battle against your cancer, people are spoken of as bravely winning or losing the fight against whatever form and type of cancer they are diagnosed with, and that in itself is ridiculous, nobody is ever described as winning or losing a brave and heroic battle against diabetes for example, or any other condition that you have to learn to live with and cope with in the best way you can.
Cancer is often described as if it is some alien thing that has taken over your body, that you are expected to fight and rail against, nobody ever describes Motor Neurone disease or Parkinson’s for example, in these terms.
I hope nobody minds me posting these ramblings here, strange what you think of in the wee small hours when you can’t sleep! We are all different in our reactions to the stuff that life chucks at us, some of us wobble a bit trying to cope with small stuff, let alone the big problems.

 

[DrWazzock]

I do sometimes wonder if some of the phrases and terminology used to describe how an individual is supposed to cope with a diagnosis of cancer are just a bit strange and ultimately unhelpful.
You are supposed to be like a warrior and battle against your cancer, people are spoken of as bravely winning or losing the fight against whatever form and type of cancer they are diagnosed with, and that in itself is ridiculous, nobody is ever described as winning or losing a brave and heroic battle against diabetes for example, or any other condition that you have to learn to live with and cope with in the best way you can.
Cancer is often described as if it is some alien thing that has taken over your body, that you are expected to fight and rail against, nobody ever describes Motor Neurone disease or Parkinson’s for example, in these terms.
I hope nobody minds me posting these ramblings here, strange what you think of in the wee small hours when you can’t sleep! We are all different in our reactions to the stuff that life chucks at us, some of us wobble a bit trying to cope with small stuff, let alone the big problems.

There is certainly an “industry” built around cancer. It pays a lot of peoples wages. The reality on the ground is nothing like the TV adverts seeking to raise money for research or for support services. Counsellors at £100 a session just to say what any caring family member has already said or worse to offer very poor or wrong advice. Cancer charities that pay all of their employees about 3x my wage and only work 9-5 Monday to Friday and aren’t available on bank holidays. They are just full of platitudes and indifference in our experience and experts at “fobbing off” and giving false reassurances. We’ve given up on them. 14 months after first symptoms appeared my wife has had one very expensive aborted op which shouldn’t have been done, 2 chemo sessions and no useful mental health support whatsoever. The entire support side of things has fallen on the family, There has been very little help from the designated macmillan nurses at all. My wife has had to sort out her own pain relief after being wrongly told to take ibuprofen by MacMillan. Ibuprofen causes the tumours to bleed. My wife grsdually worked out the WHO pain relief hierarchy of pain relief drugs for herself being an intelligent woman but you’d be surprised how few GP’s have much knowledge of this or realise the side effects and compensatory measures needed such as laxatives to avoid serious complications. Whilst there are some good and well meaning people in the NHS, our consultants included, mistakes are made due to almost zero coordination between various departments and our GP’s. We never see the same GP twice so we get the feeling nobody really has a handle or takes responsibility for the course off treatment.
14 months after first presenting with severe pelvic pain, and after months of blind alleys and wrong treatments my wife still has severe pelvic pain. It’s not at all surprising she is thoroughly pee'd off and downhearted by this. Anybody would be. But we hope that the chemo which has now finally started will at least shrink the tumours and bring some relief.
Sorry for my cynicism, but what we need from the NHS and MacMillan is basic competence, a coordinated joined up approach and one “go to” person who manages the project. We don’t really need insincere hugs, badges, tear jerking adverts, soft talk about warriors and all that baloney. And after years of “raising money for cancer” all we still have is a knife and the same old poisonous chemo drugs (extracted from Yew trees) that do half a job while nearly killing you. WTF have they been doing for 50 years?

 

[Landrover]

There is certainly an “industry” built around cancer. It pays a lot of peoples wages. The reality on the ground is nothing like the TV adverts seeking to raise money for research or for support services. Counsellors at £100 a session just to say what any caring family member has already said or worse to offer very poor or wrong advice. Cancer charities that pay all of their employees about 3x my wage and only work 9-5 Monday to Friday and aren’t available on bank holidays. They are just full of platitudes and indifference in our experience and experts at “fobbing off” and giving false reassurances. We’ve given up on them. 14 months after first symptoms appeared my wife has had one very expensive aborted op which shouldn’t have been done, 2 chemo sessions and no useful mental health support whatsoever. The entire support side of things has fallen on the family, There has been very little help from the designated macmillan nurses at all. My wife has had to sort out her own pain relief after being wrongly told to take ibuprofen by MacMillan. Ibuprofen causes the tumours to bleed. My wife grsdually worked out the WHO pain relief hierarchy of pain relief drugs for herself being an intelligent woman but you’d be surprised how few GP’s have much knowledge of this or realise the side effects and compensatory measures needed such as laxatives to avoid serious complications. Whilst there are some good and well meaning people in the NHS, our consultants included, mistakes are made due to almost zero coordination between various departments and our GP’s. We never see the same GP twice so we get the feeling nobody really has a handle or takes responsibility for the course off treatment.
14 months after first presenting with severe pelvic pain, and after months of blind alleys and wrong treatments my wife still has severe pelvic pain. It’s not at all surprising she is thoroughly pee'd off and downhearted by this. Anybody would be. But we hope that the chemo which has now finally started will at least shrink the tumours and bring some relief.
Sorry for my cynicism, but what we need from the NHS and MacMillan is basic competence, a coordinated joined up approach and one “go to” person who manages the project. We don’t really need insincere hugs, badges, tear jerking adverts, soft talk about warriors and all that baloney. And after years of “raising money for cancer” all we still have is a knife and the same old poisonous chemo drugs (extracted from Yew trees) that do half a job while nearly killing you. WTF have they been doing for 50 years?

I hate to be cynical but sometimes there's more money in treating something rather than curing it !

 

[onthehoof]

I do sometimes wonder if some of the phrases and terminology used to describe how an individual is supposed to cope with a diagnosis of cancer are just a bit strange and ultimately unhelpful.
You are supposed to be like a warrior and battle against your cancer, people are spoken of as bravely winning or losing the fight against whatever form and type of cancer they are diagnosed with, and that in itself is ridiculous, nobody is ever described as winning or losing a brave and heroic battle against diabetes for example, or any other condition that you have to learn to live with and cope with in the best way you can.
Cancer is often described as if it is some alien thing that has taken over your body, that you are expected to fight and rail against, nobody ever describes Motor Neurone disease or Parkinson’s for example, in these terms.
I hope nobody minds me posting these ramblings here, strange what you think of in the wee small hours when you can’t sleep! We are all different in our reactions to the stuff that life chucks at us, some of us wobble a bit trying to cope with small stuff, let alone the big problems.

Think it's stems back to when cancer was pretty much untreatable, if you got it you would die from it, as you say Mnd and Parkinsons are not really any different, but cancer will always have that stigma, dad lived with PC for a good few years, accepted his treatment and got on with life, there are clearly advances in treatments, but I'm not sure being mentally strong can help fight the disease itself, of course getting diagnosed sooner may well help but not always

 

[Lili]

There is certainly an “industry” built around cancer. It pays a lot of peoples wages. The reality on the ground is nothing like the TV adverts seeking to raise money for research or for support services. Counsellors at £100 a session just to say what any caring family member has already said or worse to offer very poor or wrong advice. Cancer charities that pay all of their employees about 3x my wage and only work 9-5 Monday to Friday and aren’t available on bank holidays. They are just full of platitudes and indifference in our experience and experts at “fobbing off” and giving false reassurances. We’ve given up on them. 14 months after first symptoms appeared my wife has had one very expensive aborted op which shouldn’t have been done, 2 chemo sessions and no useful mental health support whatsoever. The entire support side of things has fallen on the family, There has been very little help from the designated macmillan nurses at all. My wife has had to sort out her own pain relief after being wrongly told to take ibuprofen by MacMillan. Ibuprofen causes the tumours to bleed. My wife grsdually worked out the WHO pain relief hierarchy of pain relief drugs for herself being an intelligent woman but you’d be surprised how few GP’s have much knowledge of this or realise the side effects and compensatory measures needed such as laxatives to avoid serious complications. Whilst there are some good and well meaning people in the NHS, our consultants included, mistakes are made due to almost zero coordination between various departments and our GP’s. We never see the same GP twice so we get the feeling nobody really has a handle or takes responsibility for the course off treatment.
14 months after first presenting with severe pelvic pain, and after months of blind alleys and wrong treatments my wife still has severe pelvic pain. It’s not at all surprising she is thoroughly pee'd off and downhearted by this. Anybody would be. But we hope that the chemo which has now finally started will at least shrink the tumours and bring some relief.
Sorry for my cynicism, but what we need from the NHS and MacMillan is basic competence, a coordinated joined up approach and one “go to” person who manages the project. We don’t really need insincere hugs, badges, tear jerking adverts, soft talk about warriors and all that baloney. And after years of “raising money for cancer” all we still have is a knife and the same old poisonous chemo drugs (extracted from Yew trees) that do half a job while nearly killing you. WTF have they been doing for 50 years?

Have you a local hospice? They can often offer support and outreach services for cancer patients living at home. Your local hospital might have a "pain" clinic where patients are seen by a pain specialist and offered effective pain relief according to the stage of their cancer.

 

[onthehoof]

There is certainly an “industry” built around cancer. It pays a lot of peoples wages. The reality on the ground is nothing like the TV adverts seeking to raise money for research or for support services. Counsellors at £100 a session just to say what any caring family member has already said or worse to offer very poor or wrong advice. Cancer charities that pay all of their employees about 3x my wage and only work 9-5 Monday to Friday and aren’t available on bank holidays. They are just full of platitudes and indifference in our experience and experts at “fobbing off” and giving false reassurances. We’ve given up on them. 14 months after first symptoms appeared my wife has had one very expensive aborted op which shouldn’t have been done, 2 chemo sessions and no useful mental health support whatsoever. The entire support side of things has fallen on the family, There has been very little help from the designated macmillan nurses at all. My wife has had to sort out her own pain relief after being wrongly told to take ibuprofen by MacMillan. Ibuprofen causes the tumours to bleed. My wife grsdually worked out the WHO pain relief hierarchy of pain relief drugs for herself being an intelligent woman but you’d be surprised how few GP’s have much knowledge of this or realise the side effects and compensatory measures needed such as laxatives to avoid serious complications. Whilst there are some good and well meaning people in the NHS, our consultants included, mistakes are made due to almost zero coordination between various departments and our GP’s. We never see the same GP twice so we get the feeling nobody really has a handle or takes responsibility for the course off treatment.
14 months after first presenting with severe pelvic pain, and after months of blind alleys and wrong treatments my wife still has severe pelvic pain. It’s not at all surprising she is thoroughly pee'd off and downhearted by this. Anybody would be. But we hope that the chemo which has now finally started will at least shrink the tumours and bring some relief.
Sorry for my cynicism, but what we need from the NHS and MacMillan is basic competence, a coordinated joined up approach and one “go to” person who manages the project. We don’t really need insincere hugs, badges, tear jerking adverts, soft talk about warriors and all that baloney. And after years of “raising money for cancer” all we still have is a knife and the same old poisonous chemo drugs (extracted from Yew trees) that do half a job while nearly killing you. WTF have they been doing for 50 years?

We were the same with dad, in the latter stages when cancer had spread to his whole body and clearly he hadn't got long we were offered a McMillan nurse, I'm sorry to say he had a lot more care and compassion from the local district nurses than from McM so much so that my mum refused to give them a donation when he died and made sure the funeral donations all went to the local nurses who actually cared for him

It certainly was an eye opener to us as to the vision we had of McM and the reality on the ground

 

[DrWazzock]

Have you a local hospice? They can often offer support and outreach services for cancer patients living at home. Your local hospital might have a "pain" clinic where patients are seen by a pain specialist and offered effective pain relief according to the stage of their cancer.

Probably good advice and we will give it a try if we continue to struggle.
But it really does highlight the disjointed nature of the system to me.
MacMillan is a charity. The hospice is a charity. Why are these things left to charities? Why isn’t cancer support and end of life care an integral joined up part of the NHS not something that relies on charity fundraisers? Cancer affects one in two of us at some point.
And why is provision of basic care so enormously expensive? It’s not that difficult. It’s basic husbandry. The people doing it don’t get much an hour.