Dealing with depression - suicidal thoughts - Join the conversation (including helpline details)

[DrWazzock]

That is so tough. Keep talking to us, rant all you want. Its a sh1t situation and there are no easy answers.

Thanks. Being a primary carer isn’t an easy job. Every respect for folks who have done that job for years. There are thousands out there, quietly getting on with it.

 

[Gong Farmer]

Your attitude is understandable. Hard as it may be, you have to make sure this disease doesn't take two victims instead of just one.

 

[ollie989898]

Your attitude is understandable. Hard as it may be, you have to make sure this disease doesn't take two victims instead of just one.

This is the absolute truth.

I am in no way qualified to give advice of any sort but I can tell you two things I have learnt that I use near daily.

The first was told to me by a doctor and in some way it has been my most important lesson to date and may well the most critical thing I ever carry with me through life. It is very simple but I will no doubt make a hash of trying to explain it:

There is actually 5% worth of 'healing value' if I can call it that just in 'being there' and caring. A calm, supportive but non-judgemental voice, a sympathetic ear, a cup of tea or a hold of hand- just being there. These things require no medical training and can be given anywhere to anyone, irrespective of the circumstances or how desperate or hopeless it may seem at the time. Just caring can heal people 5% and in many ways I've come to realise that first 5% is the most important- someone else knows that they are not alone and suddenly the world is a bit less of a dark or frightening place. So no matter what, I have the power to give that 5% and you lovely people do also. That is a powerful thing to know and remember, keep it with you, always.

Secondly, and believe me I have had to practice this, is that no matter the situation, or what is happening to someone else around me, I do my utmost to retain that same calm, collected and controlled facade that lets me hand out the aforementioned 5%. I might be frightened, feel way out of my depth, emotional/overwhelmed or whatever, but in that moment, I'm the duck on the pond you see sat there but paddling like heck underneath. Even if my heart is pounding and my eyes are wide open trying to cope with the situation around me, I am the calm duck. If I'm calm. Others around me will feel calm. It's contagious and the more you practice this, the more natural it becomes. You may call it 'professional mode' and it can become a useful defence mechanism for the bit of meat and electricity between your ears. It's like Batman's car putting the shields up.

Now this doesn't mean I'm some kind of unflinching machine inside. I don't believe anyone truly can be. You can become very good at temporarily pretending to be though. And this is actually a useful skill to develop because of what I've already outlined above. What it does not mean, is that you can wander around with this giant vat of stashed emotion on your back. It won't work and it is bad for you. So it is important, particularly for anyone connected to any caring type role, and I'm thinking of Dr Wazzock here, to have a network of people, or just someone who it is possible to talk to outside of what you are coping with in your daily life. 'It's ok to say I'm not ok'. It is thus very important that people continue to talk on the phone, go to the pub with their mates, play skittles/darts/pool or attend that farming dinner or show or whatever. This was highlighted I think during the pandemic and I believe the bulk of the nation probably had their mental health on the grindstone at some stage because of how we became socially isolated. No man is an island. It's also another reason that I believe GP services continuing to be telephone orientated is a mistake.

 

[Jrp221]

This is the absolute truth.

I am in no way qualified to give advice of any sort but I can tell you two things I have learnt that I use near daily.

The first was told to me by a doctor and in some way it has been my most important lesson to date and may well the most critical thing I ever carry with me through life. It is very simple but I will no doubt make a hash of trying to explain it:

There is actually 5% worth of 'healing value' if I can call it that just in 'being there' and caring. A calm, supportive but non-judgemental voice, a sympathetic ear, a cup of tea or a hold of hand- just being there. These things require no medical training and can be given anywhere to anyone, irrespective of the circumstances or how desperate or hopeless it may seem at the time. Just caring can heal people 5% and in many ways I've come to realise that first 5% is the most important- someone else knows that they are not alone and suddenly the world is a bit less of a dark or frightening place. So no matter what, I have the power to give that 5% and you lovely people do also. That is a powerful thing to know and remember, keep it with you, always.

Secondly, and believe me I have had to practice this, is that no matter the situation, or what is happening to someone else around me, I do my utmost to retain that same calm, collected and controlled facade that lets me hand out the aforementioned 5%. I might be frightened, feel way out of my depth, emotional/overwhelmed or whatever, but in that moment, I'm the duck on the pond you see sat there but paddling like heck underneath. Even if my heart is pounding and my eyes are wide open trying to cope with the situation around me, I am the calm duck. If I'm calm. Others around me will feel calm. It's contagious and the more you practice this, the more natural it becomes. You may call it 'professional mode' and it can become a useful defence mechanism for the bit of meat and electricity between your ears. It's like Batman's car putting the shields up.

Now this doesn't mean I'm some kind of unflinching machine inside. I don't believe anyone truly can be. You can become very good at temporarily pretending to be though. And this is actually a useful skill to develop because of what I've already outlined above. What it does not mean, is that you can wander around with this giant vat of stashed emotion on your back. It won't work and it is bad for you. So it is important, particularly for anyone connected to any caring type role, and I'm thinking of Dr Wazzock here, to have a network of people, or just someone who it is possible to talk to outside of what you are coping with in your daily life. 'It's ok to say I'm not ok'. It is thus very important that people continue to talk on the phone, go to the pub with their mates, play skittles/darts/pool or attend that farming dinner or show or whatever. This was highlighted I think during the pandemic and I believe the bulk of the nation probably had their mental health on the grindstone at some stage because of how we became socially isolated. No man is an island. It's also another reason that I believe GP services continuing to be telephone orientated is a mistake.

Very well said!

 

[Bokey]

A book that I have recently returned to and find amazingly encouraging and helpful is 'Attitudes Of Gratitude' by the American author M J Ryan.

M J writes that not all healings are miraculous but modern science and recent scientific research have begun to indicate that positive emotions, such as love and gratitude, have beneficial effects on our health ..... both physically and psychologically.

@Christoph1945 it's arrived just in time for dinner

 

[primmiemoo]

It's strange what you've just said about your dad an uncle iv started smoking again after quitting years ago and I'm currently reading jordan Peterson 12 rules for life iv found comfort in both these things when feeling stressed

Comfort reading is something I find beneficial. At the moment, I have an audiobook on the go in my car specifically so that I'm not upset by news bulletins, etc. We all need our oases, and places to rest.

 

[Bokey]

Comfort reading is something I find beneficial. At the moment, I have an audiobook on the go in my car specifically so that I'm not upset by news bulletins, etc. We all need our oases, and places to rest.

When I'm stressed reading keeps my mind distracted iv never tried an audio book but I might try it while I'm working

 

[Dairyfarmerswife]

Comfort reading is something I find beneficial. At the moment, I have an audiobook on the go in my car specifically so that I'm not upset by news bulletins, etc. We all need our oases, and places to rest.

I stopped listening to the news on the radio a few years ago when I had anxiety problems. I really like audio books because they help me keep moving when I'm struggling with motivation. I use podcasts at night instead because I don't want to fall asleep and miss part of my audio book!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Comfort reading is something I find beneficial. At the moment, I have an audiobook on the go in my car specifically so that I'm not upset by news bulletins, etc. We all need our oases, and places to rest.

News bulletins are horrid, I haven't watched the mainstream news since long before I was married, so when it intrudes it is really shocking

They seem to assume everyone "wants" to hear their sorry stories.. I have a radio going because I like background music while I work, not because I want to have my mind played with.

 

[DrWazzock]

Presently reading "Being Human" by Rowan Williams. Half of it is theological philosophy that goes over my head but I can actually understand some of it, especially the the chapter on "Silence".
Silence is actually a very powerful thing, when we are "lost for words" for example. But silence can be a good thing at times.

 

[primmiemoo]

News bulletins are horrid, I haven't watched the mainstream news since long before I was married, so when it intrudes it is really shocking

They seem to assume everyone "wants" to hear their sorry stories.. I have a radio going because I like background music while I work, not because I want to have my mind played with.

I do listen to the radio when indoors by myself, but it's no longer audio wallpaper. The 6 o'clock national news, and 6.30 local news on TV are watched most evenings. For me, it's that space in the car when there are no passengers that needs proofing against world events and general overthinking.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Presently reading "Being Human" by Rowan Williams. Half of it is theological philosophy that goes over my head but I can actually understand some of it, especially the the chapter on "Silence".
Silence is actually a very powerful thing, when we are "lost for words" for example. But silence can be a good thing at times.

Most in society seem scared of silence these days.....

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Most in society seem scared of silence these days.....

I cherish it, for 'absolute' silence is very rare.

As I was thinking while reading @primmiemoo's reply to my earlier post, the world can shrugger off sometimes. My life is in here!

 

[Christoph1945]

@Christoph1945 it's arrived just in time for dinner View attachment 1038760

I am amazed at how quickly you obtained your copy and am looking forwards to reading your opinion of the contents and their effects on daily life.

 

[Christoph1945]

The Macmillan nurses are a big help after a slow start. Really, if only my wife could come to terms with her diagnosis it would be ten times easier. She’s not in imminent danger, could well live 5 years or more. It might sound rather harsh of me, but I believe there are two ways of approaching this. The way of acceptance and making the best of it, or the way of anger, resentment, blame etc. Unfortunately she’s chosen the latter negative path and she’s driven everybody away who has tried to help her except for myself as I’m married to her ….. in sickness and in health and all that …..which does remind me of the Alf Garnet series of that name.
If I was dealing with the cancer myself I honestly think it would be easier than trying to help somebody else through it. We can’t all live forever., we need to accept our mortality and just make the best of what we’ve got. But oh no. Every day spent ranting and raving about what should have been or could have been and if only. She stretches my patience to the limit if I’m honest. This cancer has magnified the very worst parts of her character and it’s not pleasant at all. I’ve almost given up reasoning with her as I can’t change her fundamental attitude to the problem. Many counsellors, psychologists, friends and relatives have come thinking they can talk her round but gone away or put the phone down after it ends with a blazing row with her. I’m sitting in another room now while she rants on yet another help line looking for an answer she will never find. Dear oh dear, what a mess. Turn up the telly, open a beer and ignore it, otherwise it would drive you round the bend. Sorry but that’s the reality of dealing with some folk with cancer.

Time and again I think about your situation and have deferred writing a certain reply lest I write the wrong thing and turn out to be unhelpful.

 

[DrWazzock]

Time and again I think about your situation and have deferred writing a certain reply lest I write the wrong thing and turn out to be unhelpful.

You have never written an unhelpful reply. I always value your opinion.
I think though, that there isn’t necessarily a solution and that isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
We need to be content and relaxed about the reality that there isn’t a solution to the problem.
Right from early days in education we are taught to define and solve problems. That’s not a bad idea in itself but we need to accept that sometimes there isn’t a solution and it’s necessary to find a way of accepting and living with problems lest we wear ourselves out looking for an answer that doesn’t feasibly exist. I don’t think that’s defeatism : we still do what we can, but no point burning ourselves out fretting over things we can’t solve.
Farming is very much a job that throws up such unsolvable problems. We look to a can of chemicals, or a new machine but sooner or later nature finds a way to defeat us yet again. So sometimes we need to just adapt rather than conquer or it would drive us round the bend.

 

[Bokey]

I am amazed at how quickly you obtained your copy and am looking forwards to reading your opinion of the contents and their effects on daily life.

Ye ordered it night before on amazon I'm a slow reader but she says not to read it fast an let it sink in so far I like it's gentle attitude not following strict do this do that an you'll be cured but trying to coax your outlook on life its already had me tearful at the start when she says sit an think about a moment in life when you felt grateful took me back to a memory I'd be 10 or 11 it was an early September morning sunshine blue skies not one cloud I came outside into the yard an just sat watching the swallows lining up getting themselves ready for leaving and feeling grateful to be there I suppose. What I'd give to go en sit next to that lad now an have a chat with him

 

[Christoph1945]

Ye ordered it night before on amazon I'm a slow reader but she says not to read it fast an let it sink in so far I like it's gentle attitude not following strict do this do that an you'll be cured but trying to coax your outlook on life its already had me tearful at the start when she says sit an think about a moment in life when you felt grateful took me back to a memory I'd be 10 or 11 it was an early September morning sunshine blue skies not one cloud I came outside into the yard an just sat watching the swallows lining up getting themselves ready for leaving and feeling grateful to be there I suppose. What I'd give to go en sit next to that lad now an have a chat with him

What would you like to say to your child?

There are some who advocate that our child is still active within our psyche, as is is our parent, along with our present adult and we frequently switch between all three, depending on situations that we face; all a bit too complicated for me.

 

[Bokey]

What would you like to say to your child?

There are some who advocate that our child is still active within our psyche, as is is our parent, along with our present adult and we frequently switch between all three, depending on situations that we face; all a bit too complicated for me.

It makes alot of sense what you say I'd tell him not to shy away from life and hide you have as much right to it than anyone don't beat yourself up about making poor judgements an mistakes you can only do your best don't worry about what people think of you stop worrying what might happen because it's usually the things we haven't thought about that do happen don't be so hard on yourself easier said than done though

 

[Christoph1945]

You have never written an unhelpful reply. I always value your opinion.
I think though, that there isn’t necessarily a solution and that isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
We need to be content and relaxed about the reality that there isn’t a solution to the problem.
Right from early days in education we are taught to define and solve problems. That’s not a bad idea in itself but we need to accept that sometimes there isn’t a solution and it’s necessary to find a way of accepting and living with problems lest we wear ourselves out looking for an answer that doesn’t feasibly exist. I don’t think that’s defeatism : we still do what we can, but no point burning ourselves out fretting over things we can’t solve.
Farming is very much a job that throws up such unsolvable problems. We look to a can of chemicals, or a new machine but sooner or later nature finds a way to defeat us yet again. So sometimes we need to just adapt rather than conquer or it would drive us round the bend.

In her book Attitudes of Gratitude, M J Ryan writes ....... Josephine is a seventy-seven-year-old woman who, in her late fifties, was diagnosed with a malignant brain tumor and scheduled for surgery a few days later. Whilst waiting for the operation, she sat on her porch swing and gave thanks for all the wonderful things in her life. She wrote letters of thanks to each of her family members. called them around her and went into the hospital. The night before surgery, she suddenly saw ''what looked like a beautiful woman with long flowing hair smiling at her and radiating light. She said she was an angel who felt her love and she had come to reassure her that everything was OK and she would have plenty of time to fulfil her life's purpose and then she said always remember that it was your love and your appreciation that brought healing to you.'' It turned out that the tumor was gone and Josephine was sent home without surgery.

I can almost hear Judge Judy shouting across the courtroom to me ........ ''You can't write that, that is hearsay; you can only write about what you, yourself, have seen and heard!''

I have personally seen and heard many things but wonder if this is the right time and place for such and perhaps there should be a separate thread for them?