Debt

Discussion in 'Livestock & Forage' started by cattleman123, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. And I'd say livestock boys have got the stronger balance sheet with the value of the stock. Every year arable farmers gamble the lot on a decent summer
     
  2. Big guy

    Big guy Member

    The arable job isn’t as easy as it once was, the amount of chemicals been done away with at present is going to be a big factor in its future
     
    buffalo_soldier likes this.
  3. lloyd

    lloyd Member

    Location:
    Herefordshire
    Lots of farmers in this country were saved
    by government intervention.
    Cashing in milk quota that should never have been
    monetarily tradeable and excessive F&M compensation.
    Take these two out of the equation and alot of the so
    called clever ones would have rather smaller businesses.
     
  4. Forage Trader

    Forage Trader Member

    Location:
    Ceredigion
    I would bet that owner occupiers carry the bulk of the Dept
     
  5. Clive

    Clive Staff Member

    Location:
    Lichfield
    “Clever” is making the best of the cards you are dealt surely ?

    Another thing I observe a lot amongst farmers is jealousy. Often to justify their own poor decisions, No better example of that than the attitudes to debt in this thread so far from some
     
  6. Clive

    Clive Staff Member

    Location:
    Lichfield
    Any farmer that owns their land and still can’t make a decent living really is doing something astoundingly wrong ! They really should give up for their own safety!
     
  7. lloyd

    lloyd Member

    Location:
    Herefordshire
    Nothing wrong with making good use of easy money I do that
    myself but not at the expense of patronising farmers who perhaps
    have been dealt a less favourable hand.
     
  8. Clive

    Clive Staff Member

    Location:
    Lichfield
    You make your own luck in life

    “The more I practice the luckier I get”

    “Luck is a lifetime of preparation meeting a moment of opportunity”
     
    Dead Rabbits likes this.
  9. An Gof

    An Gof Member

    Location:
    Cornwall
    The size and structure of your business is not typical. There are a whole host of owner occupiers in the SW, and I guess other areas, that do not have your scale and operate in less favourable sectors such as lowland livestock. Making a “decent” living living can be a challenge for them even with their often modest requirements. The sort of “decent living” you might consider would be fanciful thinking for many.
     
    fieldfarmer, PaulNix, C.J and 3 others like this.
  10. Forage Trader

    Forage Trader Member

    Location:
    Ceredigion
    How much do you know about livestock farming ?
     
    Recoil and An Gof like this.
  11. lloyd

    lloyd Member

    Location:
    Herefordshire
    Some people are certainly lucky to have
    the oppuortunity to build on an already
    existing capital rich business their father had developed
    before them.
    You get the feeling on here that certain individuals had all
    the Britains toys as a child:whistle:
     
  12. Forage Trader

    Forage Trader Member

    Location:
    Ceredigion
    I can only speak for myself but when I left School at 15 we had 90 acres .when dad retired we had 650 acres . I have Worked on the farm full time without wages since the age of 15 .I would expect a lot af farmers developed like that around here.
     
    livestock 1 likes this.
  13. Will Blackburn

    Location:
    Cheshire
    As soon as someone focuses on this type of thing, they ain't going to amount to anything. You can't change what's done, you can influence the future.
     
    Herd and Dead Rabbits like this.
  14. Will Blackburn

    Location:
    Cheshire
    It can only be, in that scenario, that most farmers went from 90 acres to less.
     
    unlacedgecko likes this.
  15. Clive

    Clive Staff Member

    Location:
    Lichfield
    I grew up on a dairy farm - so I know enough to know it’s not a business I want to be involved in or invest my money in

    I know that just like arable farmers some livestock guys seem to be able to make good money whilst others claim it’s impossible ......... I spot a theme there !

    Are people forced to be livestock farmers ?
     
    Pigken, Dead Rabbits, ISCO and 3 others like this.
  16. Clive

    Clive Staff Member

    Location:
    Lichfield
    And my size and structure just fell out of the sky did it ? I just “got lucky ?

    I grew up on a small, part owned part tenanted dairy farm with a load of debt and a big overdraft that wasn’t making a lot of money at all and would probably be long gone if I had just carried on “as was”

    Where it is today is is down to work, skill, sacrifice and risk taking by me and my father over the following 25years. At times we have taken on huge debt (risk) to achieve that

    It’s not luck !


    Maybe I should have remained running that small diary farm and spent my days moaning about how “lucky” others are ?
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
  17. Clive

    Clive Staff Member

    Location:
    Lichfield
    In my own case you can not begin to imagine how far from the truth that is

    But I agree farmers like that do exist - they are usually the worst businessmen of all because they never had a reason to try

    Frankly this is my biggest fear for my children and I would rather they didn’t farm as a result
     
    SD 9378, JP1, Dead Rabbits and 2 others like this.
  18. Tarw Coch

    Tarw Coch Member

    It’s not quite as straightforward as that, owner occupiers get bills that tenants don’t. Last year I put new windows in the house that would have amounted to about a years rent, and that was taking the cheapest option replacing sash windows with hinged windows albeit in the same style as the originals. To replace with upvc sash windows would have more than doubled the cost.
    A mate of mine who’s a tennant had new oak windows a few years back in his listed farmhouse, he reckoned at the time it cost near enough 3 years rent, the house has also been rewired and re roofed in recent years, all paid for by the landlord.

    Didn’t you mention a while back that the estate had put all new buildings on your farm albeit quite a number of years back.

    I think I may allready have said, the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
  19. milkloss

    milkloss Member

    Location:
    East Sussex
    A few thoughts about tenanted vs owned farms
    The rent ‘focuses’ the mind towards profitability and efficiency.
    They are rented therefore have to more profitable to pay the rent so likely better ground, better buildings etc etc.
    Cost of upkeep and building maintenance and construction.
    Tenants can more easily jump to another farm for whatever reason, the most pertinent being to find a more profitable farm. I’m not saying owners couldn’t, it’s just that there may be more ties such as family history, cost of sale/purchase etc.

    I’m not too knowledgable about it all I’ll admit so am I wrong?
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
    Sheeponfire and livestock 1 like this.
  20. Forage Trader

    Forage Trader Member

    Location:
    Ceredigion
    The question was about dept, not if they are forced to farm
     

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