Debt

[Still Farming]

I can only speak for myself but when I left School at 15 we had 90 acres .when dad retired we had 650 acres . I have Worked on the farm full time without wages since the age of 15 .I would expect a lot af farmers developed like that around here.

True but if followed above advice would have had to give up if wages had to be drawn at going rate.

 

[Clive]

The question was about dept, not if they are forced to farm

You asked if I knew much about livestock farming

I answered

This thread is about debt

 

[Adeptandy]

It’s not quite as straightforward as that, owner occupiers get bills that tenants don’t. Last year I put new windows in the house that would have amounted to about a years rent, and that was taking the cheapest option replacing sash windows with hinged windows albeit in the same style as the originals. To replace with upvc sash windows would have more than doubled the cost.
A mate of mine who’s a tennant had new oak windows a few years back in his listed farmhouse, he reckoned at the time it cost near enough 3 years rent, the house has also been rewired and re roofed in recent years, all paid for by the landlord.

Didn’t you mention a while back that the estate had put all new buildings on your farm albeit quite a number of years back.

I think I may allready have said, the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.

Not all tenants are that lucky, my LL passed all the repairs to me apart from the Roof, Walls and Electrics as part of the tenancy

 

[livestock 1]

Sorry to simplify it but why does a hill farmer in a ring fence have higher costs than me farming near bedford?

I could farm at Bedford you couldn’t farm here sorry to say it but that’s the truth

 

[7610 super q]

And my size and structure just fell out of the sky did it ? I just “got lucky ?

I grew up on a small, part owned part tenanted dairy farm with a load of debt and a big overdraft that wasn’t making a lot of money at all and would probably be long gone if I had just carried on “as was”

Where it is today is is down to work, skill, sacrifice and risk taking by me and my father over the following 25years. At times we have taken on huge debt (risk) to achieve that

It’s not luck !


Maybe I should have remained running that small diary farm and spent my days moaning about how “lucky” others are ?

A couple of posts earlier, you came out with that old chestnut " you make your own luck ".

Anyhoo, I suspect most of us who have " got somewhere " have really only done it by buying and selling at the right time. Probably by taking advantage of others misfortune. I see agriculture these days as a mad scramble to outdo others. Screwing each other over the price of fodder / land rents etc, whilst pissing about receiving 1970's prices in a giant race to the bottom. LL vs tenant , arable vs lifestock, big vs small. If this forum resembles UK agriculture in general, I'm embarrassed to be part of it.
f**k all seems to happen to sort the root cause of the problem, only smartarses chip in with " why should the public pay more for food ? ", " why should the industry be subsidised ?" , If you can't make money with wheat at £150 / ton, there must be something wrong ".
Yeah, we're all making money at £150 /ton, but with only 100 acres that's only £15k / year. 200 acres is reaching average wage level at £30k, but leaves nothing to invest. So 500 acres is needed for a comfortable living. A £5 million investment just to make a comfortable living. What a joke.

 

[super4]

It’s not quite as straightforward as that, owner occupiers get bills that tenants don’t. Last year I put new windows in the house that would have amounted to about a years rent, and that was taking the cheapest option replacing sash windows with hinged windows albeit in the same style as the originals. To replace with upvc sash windows would have more than doubled the cost.
A mate of mine who’s a tennant had new oak windows a few years back in his listed farmhouse, he reckoned at the time it cost near enough 3 years rent, the house has also been rewired and re roofed in recent years, all paid for by the landlord.

Didn’t you mention a while back that the estate had put all new buildings on your farm albeit quite a number of years back.

I think I may allready have said, the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.

I am a Tenant here and I have to pay half on my farmhouse windows, listed aswell so handmade and hardwood
Never see that money again and might not be here next year.

 

[Still Farming]

A couple of posts earlier, you came out with that old chestnut " you make your own luck ".

Anyhoo, I suspect most of us who have " got somewhere " have really only done it by buying and selling at the right time. Probably by taking advantage of others misfortune. I see agriculture these days as a mad scramble to outdo others. Screwing each other over the price of fodder / land rents etc, whilst pissing about receiving 1970's prices in a giant race to the bottom. LL vs tenant , arable vs lifestock, big vs small. If this forum resembles UK agriculture in general, I'm embarrassed to be part of it.
fudge all seems to happen to sort the root cause of the problem, only smartarses chip in with " why should the public pay more for food ? ", " why should the industry be subsidised ?" , If you can't make money with wheat at £150 / ton, there must be something wrong ".
Yeah, we're all making money at £150 /ton, but with only 100 acres that's only £15k / year. 200 acres is reaching average wage level at £30k, but leaves nothing to invest. So 500 acres is needed for a comfortable living. A £5 million investment just to make a comfortable living. What a joke.

And 100k line managers ar Bridgend Ford now wonder closing down .
Whole systems wrong somewhere?

 

[7610 super q]

I am a Tenant here and I have to pay half on my farmhouse windows, listed aswell so handmade and hardwood
Never see that money again.

Some must have had better agents setting up agreements than others.....
I get landed with all the repairs, plus I get presented with bills for the damage my tenant has himself done to the buildings....

 

[Tarw Coch]

Not all tenants are that lucky, my LL passed all the repairs to me apart from the Roof, Walls and Electrics as part of the tenancy

True, I know someone who’s house, indeed entire farm is quite appalling, the walls of the kitchen are green with damp, the roof needs doing and they can’t go in one of the front rooms as the floor is that weak it’s on the point of collapsing into the cellar. The landlord isn’t interested
As a private landlord I couldnt rent a house out like that yet there are different regulations if the house is part of a farm.
The whole place is a mess and the landlord doesn’t care.

Meanwhile the mate I mentioned in my previous post has told me it is his aim to get all the money he pays in rent each year back and I’m sure as an overall average he ain’t far out.

 

[livestock 1]

Not that I want to pick sides here but the bigger businesses require bigger commitments, more organisation, less spare time, more time thinking. A local plant hire man asked me how much actual time was spent doing farming stuff including office work agent work dealing with people and generally trying to find the best way through things. Doesn’t leave much time for other things

 

[Jameshenry]

If someone has the ability the drive and a good head to take on a lot of borrowed money to buy more land / farms or equipment etc, i say good on them,
I see a lot of bigger farmers around here, that seem to just give themselves more headaches by going bigger, they certainly aren't happy from what i can see of it,
The older i get the more i realise that the measure of success in life has got very little to do with how much land you own, or how much money is in your bank account

 

[Still Farming]

True, I know someone who’s house, indeed entire farm is quite appalling, the walls of the kitchen are green with damp, the roof needs doing and they can’t go in one of the front rooms as the floor is that weak it’s on the point of collapsing into the cellar. The landlord isn’t interested
As a private landlord I couldnt rent a house out like that yet there are different regulations if the house is part of a farm.
The whole place is a mess and the landlord doesn’t care.

Meanwhile the mate I mentioned in my previous post has told me it is his aim to get all the money he pays in rent each year back and I’m sure as an overall average he ain’t far out.

What SFP do they get and still be like that though???

 

[livestock 1]

If someone has the ability the drive and a good head to take on a lot of borrowed money to buy more land / farms or equipment etc, i say good on them,
I see a lot of bigger farmers around here, that seem to just give themselves more headaches by going bigger, they certainly aren't happy from what i can see of it,
The older i get the more i realise that the measure of success in life has got very little to do with how much land you own, or how much money is in your bank account

Or if you’ve half killed yourself in the process

 

[Tarw Coch]

What SFP do they get and still be like that though???

I would imagine they get the same as everyone else

 

[Clive]

A couple of posts earlier, you came out with that old chestnut " you make your own luck ".

Anyhoo, I suspect most of us who have " got somewhere " have really only done it by buying and selling at the right time. Probably by taking advantage of others misfortune. I see agriculture these days as a mad scramble to outdo others. Screwing each other over the price of fodder / land rents etc, whilst pissing about receiving 1970's prices in a giant race to the bottom. LL vs tenant , arable vs lifestock, big vs small. If this forum resembles UK agriculture in general, I'm embarrassed to be part of it.
fudge all seems to happen to sort the root cause of the problem, only smartarses chip in with " why should the public pay more for food ? ", " why should the industry be subsidised ?" , If you can't make money with wheat at £150 / ton, there must be something wrong ".
Yeah, we're all making money at £150 /ton, but with only 100 acres that's only £15k / year. 200 acres is reaching average wage level at £30k, but leaves nothing to invest. So 500 acres is needed for a comfortable living. A £5 million investment just to make a comfortable living. What a joke.

You don’t have to do it ! Take your 5 million and enjoy

Do you realise how ridiculous it would sound to most people to hear someone with 5 million complaining how poorly done by they were ?

 

[Still Farming]

I would imagine they get the same as everyone else

All different ant 'it ?

 

[unlacedgecko]

A couple of posts earlier, you came out with that old chestnut " you make your own luck ".

Anyhoo, I suspect most of us who have " got somewhere " have really only done it by buying and selling at the right time. Probably by taking advantage of others misfortune. I see agriculture these days as a mad scramble to outdo others. Screwing each other over the price of fodder / land rents etc, whilst pissing about receiving 1970's prices in a giant race to the bottom. LL vs tenant , arable vs lifestock, big vs small. If this forum resembles UK agriculture in general, I'm embarrassed to be part of it.
fudge all seems to happen to sort the root cause of the problem, only smartarses chip in with " why should the public pay more for food ? ", " why should the industry be subsidised ?" , If you can't make money with wheat at £150 / ton, there must be something wrong ".
Yeah, we're all making money at £150 /ton, but with only 100 acres that's only £15k / year. 200 acres is reaching average wage level at £30k, but leaves nothing to invest. So 500 acres is needed for a comfortable living. A £5 million investment just to make a comfortable living. What a joke.

1) ownership of land is not necessary to farm.

2) it would seem UK farms are too small to support a family growing commodities. Too many farmers?

 

[7610 super q]

You don’t have to do it ! Take your 5 million and enjoy

Do you realise how ridiculous it would sound to most people to hear someone with 5 million complaining how poorly done by they were ?

Yes, if you have 5 million. And I agree, if you have to start from scratch, 5 million would be far better invested elsewhere.

 

[7610 super q]

1) ownership of land is not necessary to farm.

2) it would seem UK farms are too small to support a family growing commodities. Too many farmers?

It depends what we want.
Large commercial farming companies farming everything going, not knowing the history, or even the field names of the ground they're " farming ".
Or a continuation of family farms nurturing the countryside as has been done for centuries.

If it's the former, we're heading in the right direction.
Open cast wheat farming is the phrase I've just invented. Patent applied for.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

You asked if I knew much about livestock farming

I answered

This thread is about debt

Ok . Hill farms have no option than to farm sheep. They cant survive without financial assistance. Right or wrong that's,how it is . It dont make them good or bad farmers. If the price of wheat dropped back to £70 ton like it was not so long ago I'm sure a lot of good farmers might find it difficult.