Deciding on when to dose for fluke - using tests.

Useful article this week in the FW about fluke. Early cases of fluke have been picked up on Zoetis Parasite Watch farms using copro-antigen test, so message is we may need to dose early (like now), particularly against immature fluke, which means triclabendazole. A mixed worm burden would mean a broader spectrum product.

What monitoring/treatment plans are folk following?

TIA

I did and antigen test on my lambs last week and it came back as negative so I am now wondering how to proceed, eg is it worth testing them again in a month or if not when? Anyone recommend a link to explain how to decide whether to dose or not at different times of the year? When to use the egg count or the antigen test etc etc.

I've pulled these out from the FEC thread since fluke is a bit different and hopefully this will generate some answers specific to dealing with fluke and using faecal count and the copra antigen test. Hope @Woolly doesn't mind.

I'm wondering if I should do a faecal test in case of rumen fluke??
 
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A faecal egg test for fluke will only show eggs if you have adult fluke. If the copra antigen test has shown no challenge from fluke, there shouldn't be any fluke to lay eggs.

Copra antigen again in a month? :scratchhead:

I think I read that you should still test the faeces because if that's positive when the antigen is negative it could point to rumen fluke.

I'm not sure how long the season is for the animals picking up fluke - I'd like to not have to dose the lambs I'm keeping to slaughter as it would give me more options as to when to send them off rather than having to wait for the withdrawal to work through.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
I've no idea what the test is for rumen fluke, but I'd be interested to find out (I suspected it here last year).

The 'season' for liver fluke depends on the weather. In the wet, mild winter of 2012/3, it never stopped, meaning huge numbers of eggs were carried over into the next year as well.:( If there's a cold snap, the fluke stop being picked up by the sheep I think, so no more immatures to deal with, hence the normal advice to use TBZ for juveniles in teh Autumn, then follow up with Closantel, Trodax, etc to kill adults later.
 

Al R

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
West Wales
We were having 1-2% of lambs that were killed in June back with notes saying liver fluke, 4-5% in July and a 5-6% that went last week. Just fluke dose them @GrannyAching
 
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Rumen fluke does not show on copra antigen test as far as I know but eggs will be found with sedimentation test if they are being produced.
Rumen fluke are very obvious at post mortem examination.
The question is why are you worried about rumen fluke, most vets will tell you that they are not pathogenic and don't need treating.
So I would just repeat the copra antigen in a few weeks to monitor for what is important ie. Liver Fluke.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Rumen fluke does not show on copra antigen test as far as I know but eggs will be found with sedimentation test if they are being produced.
Rumen fluke are very obvious at post mortem examination.
The question is why are you worried about rumen fluke, most vets will tell you that they are not pathogenic and don't need treating.
So I would just repeat the copra antigen in a few weeks to monitor for what is important ie. Liver Fluke.

I know of a couple of folk that have had experienced problems over the last year or so in sheep that has been attributed to rumen fluke (after testing with their vets). Maybe it's something we should be considering?:scratchhead:

I had ewes that appeared 'flukey' in the Spring, but came back negative to copra antigen. We discussed rumen fluke, but didn't go any further to testing. As I was going to use a yellow drench at lambing, I opted to use Levafas Diamond, which would clear any rumen fluke too, and the sheep certainly picked up after drenching.
I'm certainly interested in investigating further this year.
 

bovine

Member
Location
North
Just fluke dose them Sheila!

No don't. Look how that behaviour went with wormers.

PROVE you need to use a product before you use it and then CHECK it's worked.

Rumen fluke not pathogenic, stop getting your knickers in a twist.

Copraantigen finds infection 3 weeks sooner than eggs. Reacts faster so better to check treatment efficacy. Takes 10-12 weeks after infection before you find fluke eggs. The only thing we need to be aware of is nothing can reliably detect more recent infection in living animals. If test is negative then re-test at a suitabe interval (generally a month, but sooner if worried).
 

Frank-the-Wool

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
East Sussex
At the moment the effect of rumen fluke is not clearly understood and there is research work being carried out to discover if there is a negative effect.
The Moredun is working on this and continues to do work on ordinary liver fluke. They are in the process of producing a new updated news sheet that will come out in the next couple of months.
 

Marennydd

Member
Location
Mid Wales
At the moment the effect of rumen fluke is not clearly understood and there is research work being carried out to discover if there is a negative effect.
The Moredun is working on this and continues to do work on ordinary liver fluke. They are in the process of producing a new updated news sheet that will come out in the next couple of months.

When the news sheet is released, could someone let us know please?
 
I know of a couple of folk that have had experienced problems over the last year or so in sheep that has been attributed to rumen fluke (after testing with their vets). Maybe it's something we should be considering?:scratchhead:

I had ewes that appeared 'flukey' in the Spring, but came back negative to copra antigen. We discussed rumen fluke, but didn't go any further to testing. As I was going to use a yellow drench at lambing, I opted to use Levafas Diamond, which would clear any rumen fluke too, and the sheep certainly picked up after drenching.
I'm certainly interested in investigating further this year.

After seeing rumen fluke at post mortem it is hard to believe that they don't cause any problems.
We did a bit of a trial using Oxyclosanide on some and TBZ on others, it didn't show any benefit from treating for the rumen fluke but wasn't very scientific as can't be sure the rumen fluke were effectively controlled.
Probably need to follow through to slaughter as I didn't want any more post mortems.
 

Woolly

Member
Location
W Wales
The 'season' for liver fluke depends on the weather. In the wet, mild winter of 2012/3, it never stopped, meaning huge numbers of eggs were carried over into the next year as well.:( If there's a cold snap, the fluke stop being picked up by the sheep I think, so no more immatures to deal with, hence the normal advice to use TBZ for juveniles in the Autumn, then follow up with Closantel, Trodax, etc to kill adults later.
According to the FW article, the eggs don't hatch <10C. But once hatched and in the mud snail host, fluke may overwinter in the snails.

Or having left the snail may overwinter on the grass as highly resilient metacercariae, waiting to be eaten.

So there isn't really an 'off-season' particularly in warm/wet conditions.
http://www.scops.org.uk/endoparasites-liver-fluke.html
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
After seeing rumen fluke at post mortem it is hard to believe that they don't cause any problems.
We did a bit of a trial using Oxyclosanide on some and TBZ on others, it didn't show any benefit from treating for the rumen fluke but wasn't very scientific as can't be sure the rumen fluke were effectively controlled.
Probably need to follow through to slaughter as I didn't want any more post mortems.

One of the guys I'm thinking of lurks on here :peeking:, and told me (IIRC) they'd lost a few, then treated with Oxyclosanide after vet investigations. Losses stopped and the sheep improved in condition. I think they'd already been treated for liver fluke previously and he's smart enough not to be throwing drugs around randomly.

More information on rumen fluke would certainly be welcome.:)
 
No don't. Look how that behaviour went with wormers.

PROVE you need to use a product before you use it and then CHECK it's worked.

Which is what I intend to do and why I started the thread.

Rumen fluke not pathogenic, stop getting your knickers in a twist.

Not twisted at all - simply trying to use the info I have found on the net and asking questions.

Copraantigen finds infection 3 weeks sooner than eggs. Reacts faster so better to check treatment efficacy. Takes 10-12 weeks after infection before you find fluke eggs. The only thing we need to be aware of is nothing can reliably detect more recent infection in living animals. If test is negative then re-test at a suitable interval (generally a month, but sooner if worried).

Thank you - I will test again in a month as suggested. Are we essentially saying the sedimentation test is not worth doing if you have access to the antigen test?
 
We were having 1-2% of lambs that were killed in June back with notes saying liver fluke, 4-5% in July and a 5-6% that went last week.

How old are these animals because I know you get them away pretty quickly and where are they getting these fluke from? I just didn't imagine you on wet ground down in the tropics of Pembrokeshire.
 

Al R

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
West Wales
How old are these animals because I know you get them away pretty quickly and where are they getting these fluke from? I just didn't imagine you on wet ground down in the tropics of Pembrokeshire.

From 12-17 weeks. The longer we have them here the more show up at slaughter.
We have some moorland/wet ground that a proportion of the flock would be on. 5" of rain in June probably isn't helping the problem? I've altered that tag too.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
From 12-17 weeks. The longer we have them here the more show up at slaughter.
We have some moorland/wet ground that a proportion of the flock would be on. 5" of rain in June probably isn't helping the problem? I've altered that tag too.

Lack of any real winter will be stopping a lid being put on their life cycle too.:(
 

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