Defra fears lack of trust will undermine ELMs uptake

Steevo

Member
Location
Gloucestershire

Defra fears lack of trust will undermine ELMs uptake​

News21 Jun 2022Jez Fredenburgh
A senior Defra employee has said he is concerned that farmers do not trust the Government department enough to fully engage with ELMS.
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Jez   Fredenburgh
Jez Fredenburgh


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Defra fears lack of trust will undermine ELMs uptake


“The big challenge is that farmers do not have trust in us at the moment,” said Jonathan Baker, deputy director of programme, policy and engagement strategy in the Future Farming and Countryside Programme at Defra.

“Therefore, they will not engage with the [new environmental] schemes – that is what I am most worried about.”

Mixed Cotswolds farmer focusing on regenerative practices, Henry Astor, replied; “And we will not [engage] unless schemes allow us to be profitable. Currently, if we are just breaking even we are doing well. But we are taking all the risk for big corporations.”

Mr Baker and Mr Astor were speaking during a heated panel discussion at the Sustainable Food Conference last week, that saw farmers show anger and frustration with Defra and a representative from the Scottish Government.

Mr Baker added he wanted the scheme to be clear so ‘we do not come along years later and see you have done something wrong’.

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He said payment rates would need to be reviewed and he had been told that sustainable farming incentives would not have much uptake because the price of wheat was currently so high.

Iain Hill Trevor, an organic dairy farmer in Wales, and chair of CLA Cymru, pointed out that ‘farming support is food support’, but is currently mostly passed on to retailers.

Many audience members also expressed frustration at the Government’s lack of joined-up thinking on how to achieve a sustainable, healthy and affordable food system, that also worked for farmers.

John Gilliland, director of sustainability at Devenish and former president of the Ulster Farmers Union, said: “For decades we have had a reactive approach, and we have just missed a huge opportunity with the National Food Strategy (NFS) to achieve sustainable food and health. When will Government learn to do this across sectors?”

CLA president, Mark Tufnell, said he had spoken to Defra minister Victoria Prentis recently, and she had said parts of the NFS would be taken up by the Department of Health.

“But we will have to wait and see whether this is all forgotten,” said Mr Tufnell.

 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
ELMS is an irrelevance for my business. Much more hassle and restrictions than BPS for 25% of the money. Why would I bother?
If they really want to help then just carry on with BPS, even at say 50% of what it was. Simple. That would be the pragmatic approach. And carry on with CS for those that like that of thing. I’d have no problem with that but presently my entire focus is on riding the present storm and maximising commercial output for least expense. I just haven’t time to chat about or tie myself up with ELMS.
And yes I’ve had experiences of their helpline in the past and at that time vowed to be as least reliant on their “help” as possible.
 

Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon

Defra fears lack of trust will undermine ELMs uptake​

News21 Jun 2022Jez Fredenburgh
A senior Defra employee has said he is concerned that farmers do not trust the Government department enough to fully engage with ELMS.
Twitter
Facebook


Jez   Fredenburgh
Jez Fredenburgh


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Defra fears lack of trust will undermine ELMs uptake


“The big challenge is that farmers do not have trust in us at the moment,” said Jonathan Baker, deputy director of programme, policy and engagement strategy in the Future Farming and Countryside Programme at Defra.

“Therefore, they will not engage with the [new environmental] schemes – that is what I am most worried about.”

Mixed Cotswolds farmer focusing on regenerative practices, Henry Astor, replied; “And we will not [engage] unless schemes allow us to be profitable. Currently, if we are just breaking even we are doing well. But we are taking all the risk for big corporations.”

Mr Baker and Mr Astor were speaking during a heated panel discussion at the Sustainable Food Conference last week, that saw farmers show anger and frustration with Defra and a representative from the Scottish Government.

Mr Baker added he wanted the scheme to be clear so ‘we do not come along years later and see you have done something wrong’.

Read More​

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He said payment rates would need to be reviewed and he had been told that sustainable farming incentives would not have much uptake because the price of wheat was currently so high.

Iain Hill Trevor, an organic dairy farmer in Wales, and chair of CLA Cymru, pointed out that ‘farming support is food support’, but is currently mostly passed on to retailers.

Many audience members also expressed frustration at the Government’s lack of joined-up thinking on how to achieve a sustainable, healthy and affordable food system, that also worked for farmers.

John Gilliland, director of sustainability at Devenish and former president of the Ulster Farmers Union, said: “For decades we have had a reactive approach, and we have just missed a huge opportunity with the National Food Strategy (NFS) to achieve sustainable food and health. When will Government learn to do this across sectors?”

CLA president, Mark Tufnell, said he had spoken to Defra minister Victoria Prentis recently, and she had said parts of the NFS would be taken up by the Department of Health.

“But we will have to wait and see whether this is all forgotten,” said Mr Tufnell.


1655829897238.png



Looks like the penny has finally dropped.
 

Grass And Grain

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorks
In current guise, SFI will mainly be claimed by the big boys (not their fault).

Can't remember payment rates, but say SFI introductory level arable soils leaves £5/acre after costs, maybe worth claiming if you farm 1,000 acres.
Not worth the management time for a 100acre farm.

Add in lack of trust in RPA, and maybe not worth claiming for all farm sizes. Penalties, cross compliance, hassle, annual claim form, understanding all the new prescriptions, inflexibility, all for a few pounds.

I'm a busy person. Time limited in what I do. So it will come down to return per hour of faffing about with it. If better hourly return from doing something else, with no hassle, or need to deal with RPA, then I'm out. Still hardly worth it if they were to double the payment rates.

AHDB analysis showed a negative effect on profit for some of the SFI levels. Yes, that's right, NEGATIVE. Signing up to ertain levels of SFI will reduce your profit margin (unless you were already practicing those actions).

No wonder trust is low. Not only have we got historic communication problems, guilty until proven innocent, they don't respond, poor appeals process, takes years to sort out issues, changing field boundaries, mapping issues, etc, etc, but they publicise a wonderful new scheme where the farmer will carry out actions, then ends up worse off than if they'd sat at home and watched the telly.
 
Trust in the Ministry of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs disappeared many years ago, and things have not improved under the tenure of Mrs. Johnson and her pack of followers.
BSE, FMD and the elephant in the room, badger TB are just some of the tank traps.

As said, the department’s ability to change agreements after signatories have put pen to paper, is outrageous. Not only in the CS schemes but adding gamma ifn testing to cull area herds too.

Once gone, trust is one thing very difficult to get back.
 

Wombat

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
East yorks
I know others seem to have had it better but my experience with BPS has been shite, so considering they can f**k that up yearly when its really rather simple i wouldn;t trust them to administer a church raffle.
 
Everyone I know says the elms won’t suit them
, our farm advice guide was quite keen for us to give it a go but I have said flat out no we are on our own. It is what it is and with the fertiliser closure last week things can really only get worse , if the gov/ public things the sky has fallen in with train strikes wait till the food gets scares ps those train drivers are on more money than me without any of the risk .., stuff it
 
@Janet Hughes Defra Ultimately this thread is for you. What Defra need to understand is that they are now dealing with a new generation of farmers. The old generation rolled over and took it up the a**e to be blunt. The new generation won’t, again to be blunt.

The NFU is not the U.K’s farming union. They do not represent majority of U.K. farmers and are in fact miles away from what the current thinking is so stop listening to them and stop talking to them. They are totally irrelevant and have less than 15,000 actual farmer members. The ‘shop front’ Nfu farmers who you see speaking at events and the ones who write articles are not representative of the industry. They are hand picked by Nfu hierarchy to keep the ruse going

Moving forward Defra need to clearly think about the following in no particular order.

1. You will not con farmers into giving you our carbon via environmental schemes.

2. The replacement of farm subsidy such as IACS, SFP and Bps via environmental schemes will not control food prices. IACS/SFP/BPS did control food prices even though the powers that be will tell you different. BPS the latter paid around £80/ac. This was extra farm income which offset selling wheat at £120/t when it really cost £150/t to produce.

3. The net zero argument which has brought farming into it and subsequently created SFI and ELMS so that the government can turn around to the world and say ‘yes we are net zero and yes we can sell you carbon’ is just another con. The rates SFI and ELMS are offering need to be doubled if you want that.

4. Red Tape - step in and put Red Tractor, NFU, AIC and AHDB in court. They have all colluded against farmers for the last 20 years. There is plenty of evidence proving this - a U.K. farmer cannot sell his harvested crops at world market prices unless he is farm assured. Yet for example a Ukrainian farmer can sell his harvested crops at world market prices without farm assurance. How is that fair? Farm assurance in the U.K. is fraudulent and illegal. Just look at the beef market where none assured farmers are selling their beef through local markets at the same price as farm assured beef. How is that legal?

So @Janet Hughes Defra that is four simple points, but there are many many more. You should be applauded for coming onto this forum and being available because it’s never happened in the history of agriculture. Government officials have only been available to the Nfu where the ruse continues to feed the gravy train the Nfu rides. You are changing that and hopefully the new face of government engagement. Defra need to come and talk to real farmers on the shop floor if they want to address the widening gap between government and the people producing food. Things are only going to get worse, interest rates will be at least 2.5% by Christmas and there will be a worldwide food shortage from next spring. Now is the time to engage directly and the door is open.

The British Farming Union is in its early stages but unlike the Nfu has only got farmer members and not other leaches to the industry, so get in touch and let’s get the conversation going.

 

Hampton

Member
BASIS
Location
Shropshire
@Janet Hughes Defra Ultimately this thread is for you. What Defra need to understand is that they are now dealing with a new generation of farmers. The old generation rolled over and took it up the a**e to be blunt. The new generation won’t, again to be blunt.

The NFU is not the U.K’s farming union. They do not represent majority of U.K. farmers and are in fact miles away from what the current thinking is so stop listening to them and stop talking to them. They are totally irrelevant and have less than 15,000 actual farmer members. The ‘shop front’ Nfu farmers who you see speaking at events and the ones who write articles are not representative of the industry. They are hand picked by Nfu hierarchy to keep the ruse going

Moving forward Defra need to clearly think about the following in no particular order.

1. You will not con farmers into giving you our carbon via environmental schemes.

2. The replacement of farm subsidy such as IACS, SFP and Bps via environmental schemes will not control food prices. IACS/SFP/BPS did control food prices even though the powers that be will tell you different. BPS the latter paid around £80/ac. This was extra farm income which offset selling wheat at £120/t when it really cost £150/t to produce.

3. The net zero argument which has brought farming into it and subsequently created SFI and ELMS so that the government can turn around to the world and say ‘yes we are net zero and yes we can sell you carbon’ is just another con. The rates SFI and ELMS are offering need to be doubled if you want that.

4. Red Tape - step in and put Red Tractor, NFU, AIC and AHDB in court. They have all colluded against farmers for the last 20 years. There is plenty of evidence proving this - a U.K. farmer cannot sell his harvested crops at world market prices unless he is farm assured. Yet for example a Ukrainian farmer can sell his harvested crops at world market prices without farm assurance. How is that fair? Farm assurance in the U.K. is fraudulent and illegal. Just look at the beef market where none assured farmers are selling their beef through local markets at the same price as farm assured beef. How is that legal?

So @Janet Hughes Defra that is four simple points, but there are many many more. You should be applauded for coming onto this forum and being available because it’s never happened in the history of agriculture. Government officials have only been available to the Nfu where the ruse continues to feed the gravy train the Nfu rides. You are changing that and hopefully the new face of government engagement. Defra need to come and talk to real farmers on the shop floor if they want to address the widening gap between government and the people producing food. Things are only going to get worse, interest rates will be at least 2.5% by Christmas and there will be a worldwide food shortage from next spring. Now is the time to engage directly and the door is open.

The British Farming Union is in its early stages but unlike the Nfu has only got farmer members and not other leaches to the industry, so get in touch and let’s get the conversation going.
If you think a grade 4 senior Defra official will converse with you directly after THAT sentence in your opening paragraph that you are mad and deluded.
If you want to try for a sensible conversation then delete that sentence and converse with people like an adult and a professional.
 

egbert

Member

Defra fears lack of trust will undermine ELMs uptake​

News21 Jun 2022Jez Fredenburgh
A senior Defra employee has said he is concerned that farmers do not trust the Government department enough to fully engage with ELMS.
Twitter
Facebook


Jez   Fredenburgh
Jez Fredenburgh


Share This

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Defra fears lack of trust will undermine ELMs uptake


“The big challenge is that farmers do not have trust in us at the moment,” said Jonathan Baker, deputy director of programme, policy and engagement strategy in the Future Farming and Countryside Programme at Defra.

“Therefore, they will not engage with the [new environmental] schemes – that is what I am most worried about.”

Mixed Cotswolds farmer focusing on regenerative practices, Henry Astor, replied; “And we will not [engage] unless schemes allow us to be profitable. Currently, if we are just breaking even we are doing well. But we are taking all the risk for big corporations.”

Mr Baker and Mr Astor were speaking during a heated panel discussion at the Sustainable Food Conference last week, that saw farmers show anger and frustration with Defra and a representative from the Scottish Government.

Mr Baker added he wanted the scheme to be clear so ‘we do not come along years later and see you have done something wrong’.

Read More​

Defra engaged in TB spat with researchers Defra engaged in TB spat with researchers
Defra's new entrant initiative an 'enormous waste of money''s new entrant initiative an 'enormous waste of money' Defra's new entrant initiative an 'enormous waste of money'
Defra asked to cut civil servants in efficiency drive Defra asked to cut civil servants in efficiency drive

He said payment rates would need to be reviewed and he had been told that sustainable farming incentives would not have much uptake because the price of wheat was currently so high.

Iain Hill Trevor, an organic dairy farmer in Wales, and chair of CLA Cymru, pointed out that ‘farming support is food support’, but is currently mostly passed on to retailers.

Many audience members also expressed frustration at the Government’s lack of joined-up thinking on how to achieve a sustainable, healthy and affordable food system, that also worked for farmers.

John Gilliland, director of sustainability at Devenish and former president of the Ulster Farmers Union, said: “For decades we have had a reactive approach, and we have just missed a huge opportunity with the National Food Strategy (NFS) to achieve sustainable food and health. When will Government learn to do this across sectors?”

CLA president, Mark Tufnell, said he had spoken to Defra minister Victoria Prentis recently, and she had said parts of the NFS would be taken up by the Department of Health.

“But we will have to wait and see whether this is all forgotten,” said Mr Tufnell.

no sh1t Sherlock!
 

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HSENI names new farm safety champions

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Written by William Kellett from Agriland

Farm-safety-640x360.png
The Health and Safety Executive for Northern Ireland (HSENI) alongside the Farm Safety Partnership (FSP), has named new farm safety champions and commended the outstanding work on farm safety that has been carried out in the farming community in the last 20 years.

Two of these champions are Malcom Downey, retired principal inspector for the Agri/Food team in HSENI and Harry Sinclair, current chair of the Farm Safety Partnership and former president of the Ulster Farmers’ Union (UFU).

Improving farm safety is the key aim of HSENI’s and the FSP’s work and...
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