DEFRA liaising with TFF.

Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
I quite like the irony of a self appointed group drawn from within the TFF making representation without asking the others, while some TFF rascals have questioned (ad nauseum) the NFU for representing farmers without.....er, oh.

I really don't see any irony.

Since its creation, most members of the NFU have been busy farming and trusted their union to act on their behalf. This largely worked as almost everyone had some understanding of the needs of agriculture.
In recent years the industry has become more fragmented with specialisation and split into large agribusinesses and family enterprises and understanding of agriculture beyond the industry has virtually disappeared.
It is extremely difficult for the NFU to balance the need to react quickly and effectively in the digital age and take the time consuming procedures of building a collective view of members.
The trouble is, they have recently been shown to do neither.


As an aside, why should a self appointed group consult anyone?
 

DRC

Member
George Dunn's colleague is on the engagement group, I would send him some encouragement/ pointers as there don't seem to be many on here at the moment who are happy with what the SFI is looking like.



You have received my email then (y) . I can only repeat what I said in it: If the SFI doesn't work for farmers, then it doesn't work.
TFA have held quite a few webinars on the subject and welcome members views. The last one was with Janet Hughes, but personally I still don’t think she gets how frustrated we are with it’s over complication and the fact in current form won’t interest many of us , because it just won’t be financially viable .
 
I speak to Defra about every other day. BUt not really about policy, more about how they are communicating with Farmers. Not farming groups, farmers. They are trying to listen to every one of you who makes an opinion and then from that form some consensus of policy.

That can only be good. As each and every farmer gets a say. What they chose to say is up to them.

Yes groups have formed on TFF to give evidence at a parliamentary level. But even that evidence was largely about how communcation happens.

I can assume you the land agent who also gave evidence that day, only had one agenda, to make land agents more money. And that who is currently swaying policy at a government level.

More farming groups need to be set up, not less. Be it 50 or 100 of them. Farmers need to be in whitehall talking to civil servants, not pseudo farmers or land agents. If you follow the money in farming, it's not to farmers, its to the people who give evidence at these sorts of things. So the more farmers we have there, the better.

In my opinion.

surely a bunch of vocal TFF farmers are far better talking to the Gov for the average member here than any RSPB / national trust spokesman?

we may all have different views within our community but they are surely much less different than that of other land owners as mentioned above!?
 

delilah

Member
TFA have held quite a few webinars on the subject and welcome members views. The last one was with Janet Hughes, but personally I still don’t think she gets how frustrated we are with it’s over complication and the fact in current form won’t interest many of us , because it just won’t be financially viable .

Lynette Steele, TFA, email is on that list a few posts back, ask her to read the posts on here about the SFI. She has already had an email from me pointing her to the most relevant.
It is her and the others on that engagement group who are telling Janet Hughes whether she is on the wrong track or not.
 

Jimdog1

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Devon
Specific to ELMS, Defra have their 'engagement group'.

https://defrafarming.blog.gov.uk/2021/07/27/the-environmental-land-management-engagement-group/

I guess any group formed out of TFF members could ask Defra if they could join that engagement group ?

My view is that education of the existing members of that group is more important. Anyone who wants to contact them to say what they think ELMS should look like, email addresses attached.

edit: To expand on why I believe you need to educate those groups, rather than set up any more groups:
Those groups have a mandate. Their membership.
You can't compete with a membership of 850,000 (Wildlife Trust), you need them on board.
So who have you contacted and who has responded?
 
I really don't see any irony.

Since its creation, most members of the NFU have been busy farming and trusted their union to act on their behalf. This largely worked as almost everyone had some understanding of the needs of agriculture.
In recent years the industry has become more fragmented with specialisation and split into large agribusinesses and family enterprises and understanding of agriculture beyond the industry has virtually disappeared.
It is extremely difficult for the NFU to balance the need to react quickly and effectively in the digital age and take the time consuming procedures of building a collective view of members.
The trouble is, they have recently been shown to do neither.


As an aside, why should a self appointed group consult anyone?

If they are a self appointed group and not consulting all TFF members then they are not representing those members.

Which doesn’t matter at all, except they shouldn’t give the impression they are representing every other member. Maybe they’re not saying that.

To some members it might look a bit like “it’s my ball and my rules and I’m going down the other end of the park to play”

But at least someone is trying to do something.
 

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
I really don't see any irony.

Since its creation, most members of the NFU have been busy farming and trusted their union to act on their behalf. This largely worked as almost everyone had some understanding of the needs of agriculture.
In recent years the industry has become more fragmented with specialisation and split into large agribusinesses and family enterprises and understanding of agriculture beyond the industry has virtually disappeared.
It is extremely difficult for the NFU to balance the need to react quickly and effectively in the digital age and take the time consuming procedures of building a collective view of members.
The trouble is, they have recently been shown to do neither.


As an aside, why should a self appointed group consult anyone?
'trusted their union to act on their behalf'
The last few years I've had pretty serious doubts about that.
The cattle EID garbage is a good example.
Local livestock reps to you and I who were (a) only really interested in getting planning for many hundreds of houses, or (b) grossly lacking in rational thought, and belittled anyone who didn't have a smartphone or coverage. (honestly honestly....MW told me I shouldn't be farming if that was the case) (he didn't have any cattle)
Whole tranches of membership vehemently agin it, but Minnie loves it so we'll sail straight into talks with DEFRA.
John Royles (is that his name?) aggression towards those of us who've openly challenged him or questioned it should be a dismissal offence

I agree about the fragmentation issue.
Just in Devon/livestock terms...can my interests be levelled with those of someone milking 700 cows, or a semi-retired professional who plays with a dozen cows?

As for self appointed groups?
That's fine, unless their title indicates they are representing someone who doesn't know they exist.
Are you in the TFF group mentioned elsewhere?

Anyway, I've another irony for you not to see.
How about a group inferring (or not) they represent- or might be representative of?- a forum of so many thousand farmers, but whose forum rollcall includes any number of wannabes, journos, AR moles, trade bodies....all kinds of folk who are not actually farmers.
Compare that to a union often criticised for allowing anyone to pay a sub and join.
Hmm
 

Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
'trusted their union to act on their behalf'
The last few years I've had pretty serious doubts about that.
The cattle EID garbage is a good example.
Local livestock reps to you and I who were (a) only really interested in getting planning for many hundreds of houses, or (b) grossly lacking in rational thought, and belittled anyone who didn't have a smartphone or coverage. (honestly honestly....MW told me I shouldn't be farming if that was the case) (he didn't have any cattle)
Whole tranches of membership vehemently agin it, but Minnie loves it so we'll sail straight into talks with DEFRA.
John Royles (is that his name?) aggression towards those of us who've openly challenged him or questioned it should be a dismissal offence

I agree about the fragmentation issue.
Just in Devon/livestock terms...can my interests be levelled with those of someone milking 700 cows, or a semi-retired professional who plays with a dozen cows?

As for self appointed groups?
That's fine, unless their title indicates they are representing someone who doesn't know they exist.
Are you in the TFF group mentioned elsewhere?

Anyway, I've another irony for you not to see.
How about a group inferring (or not) they represent- or might be representative of?- a forum of so many thousand farmers, but whose forum rollcall includes any number of wannabes, journos, AR moles, trade bodies....all kinds of folk who are not actually farmers.
Compare that to a union often criticised for allowing anyone to pay a sub and join.
Hmm
I think we agree completely about the NFU.
Most trusted/ assumed they were making good decisions, you have provided good examples of how they clearly aren't.
I also feel they get hamstrung by fearing to help one group in a way which might not be advantageous to other members and always favor big business as that is 'the future'.

I'm not in any group, in or out of TFF. I fully understand how the TFF grassroots group came into existence and the misunderstanding of that groups name. I fully accept they are a group who met and communicated via TFF and not a representation of that medium.

If i'd paid to be a member of TFF or to be a member of the TFF grassroots group and had not be consulted or my thoughts ignored, I would be upset.
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
I think we agree completely about the NFU.
Most trusted/ assumed they were making good decisions, you have provided good examples of how they clearly aren't.
I also feel they get hamstrung by fearing to help one group in a way which might not be advantageous to other members and always favor big business as that is 'the future'.

I'm not in any group, in or out of TFF. I fully understand how the TFF grassroots group came into existence and the misunderstanding of that groups name. I fully accept they are a group who met and communicated via TFF and not a representation of that medium.

If i'd paid to be a member of TFF or to be a member of the TFF grassroots group and had not be consulted or my thoughts ignored, I would be upset.
but surely someone such as yourself or egbert etc,etc,etc.......pays to be a member of the forum in kind as in by the time taken to think about and compose useful, for other others looking at the forum , posts.
 

Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
but surely someone such as yourself or egbert etc,etc,etc.......pays to be a member in kind as in by the time taken to think about and compose useful posts.
That's kind.

My ramblings are worth what i'm paid for them. I would absolutely love to think that anything has ever been of interest.

And whether I like it or not, I did notice one of my posts was used in their submission, so we all have the chance to make a difference. I'm sure they will have been influenced by countless postings on here, consciously or otherwise.
 

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
That's kind.

My ramblings are worth what i'm paid for them. I would absolutely love to think that anything has ever been of interest.

And whether I like it or not, I did notice one of posts was used in their submission, so we all have the chance to make a difference. I'm sure they will have been influenced by countless postings on here, consciously or otherwise.
I think i'll keep schtum about being paid to comment.............
 

CPF

Member
Arable Farmer
Looks like someone at the top of the forum will soon become a sir or dame . if they are talking to the government on agricultural matters. Because it doesn’t take anyone long at the NFU to become sir or a dame.
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
That's kind.

My ramblings are worth what i'm paid for them. I would absolutely love to think that anything has ever been of interest.

And whether I like it or not, I did notice one of my posts was used in their submission, so we all have the chance to make a difference. I'm sure they will have been influenced by countless postings on here, consciously or otherwise.
yes i daresay.
.....but not by my ploughing 'advice' and (apparently :sneaky:) complete disregard for mycorrhizal fungi i guess :oops:
 

7610 super q

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
The NFU don't represent me, neither do the 14 TFF ers. Don't get me wrong, nice enough group of folks, and a fairly good selection from the pool. I just wish they wouldn't push the no-till / regen ag agenda. To throw away the last 80 years of agronomy / farming practice / ADAS research etc seems premature to me. Ho-hum.
 

delilah

Member
So who have you contacted and who has responded?

I emailed all but one of them (we couldn't find an email address for Jenny Phelps, if anyone has it could they insert it onto that list, ta).
None have responded to date (only emailed them at the weekend), which is fine, I didn't ask for a response, rather I sent them my suggestion as to what the SFI should look like and pointed them to a few of the threads on here. It's entirely at their discretion to take notice or ignore.
 

Treg

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cornwall
'trusted their union to act on their behalf'
The last few years I've had pretty serious doubts about that.
The cattle EID garbage is a good example.
Local livestock reps to you and I who were (a) only really interested in getting planning for many hundreds of houses, or (b) grossly lacking in rational thought, and belittled anyone who didn't have a smartphone or coverage. (honestly honestly....MW told me I shouldn't be farming if that was the case) (he didn't have any cattle)
Whole tranches of membership vehemently agin it, but Minnie loves it so we'll sail straight into talks with DEFRA.
John Royles (is that his name?) aggression towards those of us who've openly challenged him or questioned it should be a dismissal offence

I agree about the fragmentation issue.
Just in Devon/livestock terms...can my interests be levelled with those of someone milking 700 cows, or a semi-retired professional who plays with a dozen cows?

As for self appointed groups?
That's fine, unless their title indicates they are representing someone who doesn't know they exist.
Are you in the TFF group mentioned elsewhere?

Anyway, I've another irony for you not to see.
How about a group inferring (or not) they represent- or might be representative of?- a forum of so many thousand farmers, but whose forum rollcall includes any number of wannabes, journos, AR moles, trade bodies....all kinds of folk who are not actually farmers.
Compare that to a union often criticised for allowing anyone to pay a sub and join.
Hmm
Ooh which ones are moles, journos & trade body? I Wannabe successful at what I do so I will except that name.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 80 42.1%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 67 35.3%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 15.8%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,294
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top