Delaying autumn drilling problems

[Clive]

A green cover between wet soil and the gauge wheels makes big differences

 

[Warnesworth]

I’m just wondering what the answer is with regard to trying to delay drilling with a 750a on clay for blackgrass purposes. Before I had the 750 I used to have to try to finish drilling wheat with the Claydon drill by 10th October and it was always sticky drilling beans a bit later.
To help with blackgrass I am trying to delay and this season I got away with putting the wheat in between 9th and 14th October but even with a dry summer and relatively dry Autumn it is now too sticky on my hanslope clay. We haven’t had any rain for 8 days when we got 15mm but the soil is just not drying now as it stays sticky all day from overnight dew.
I have been putting beans in today on a glorious day but the gauge wheels,press wheels, guttlers and drill main wheels are all balls of mud and a lot of the drill wheelings are showing.
Basically in a year as dry as this it’s impossible to delay drilling past mid Oct. anyone got any observations or suggestions?

You are treating a no-till system like a min- till system by trying to drill later. As has been mentioned in earlier replies you need to be drilling earlier. Ideally in mid to late September. Black grass is dealt with by methods other than late drilling (which didn’t seem to work last year and from what I have seen isn’t working this year) in no-till.

 

[Timbo1080]

You are treating a no-till system like a min- till system by trying to drill later. As has been mentioned in earlier replies you need to be drilling earlier. Ideally in mid to late September. Black grass is dealt with by methods other than late drilling (which didn’t seem to work last year and from what I have seen isn’t working this year) in no-till.

In my very honest opinion, the rule about earlier drilling in the autumn, and later in the spring, in a Zero Til situation, may stand true with respect to soil temps and mineralisation, but is simply a recipie for grass weed disaster. Particularly in a BG situation. What are the other methods? I ask for no other reason but I am genuinely interested, as I’d love to drill earlier! (Although have yet to see any yield advantage in doing so.....it would just be nice not to have to chew my nails so much!)

 

[cows r us]

We are currently drilling no till. We are on heavy ground and it's currently working fantastic. This is our first year at no till fully and from what I've seen so far it's a great year to get into it. Nature has cracked the ground out down to 2foot and will hopefully help in our transition period. We have to drill later a black grass has been an issue in the past but I will be slowly bringing the drill date earlier. This year I think we have gotten away with delayed drilling, it won't always be the same.

 

[fendtfan]

Would a gd drill run in your situation . Drilling yesterday with a Claydon into a lot of trash and only drilled tidily for a few hours after midday

 

[Tractor Boy]

Would a gd drill run in your situation . Drilling yesterday with a Claydon into a lot of trash and only drilled tidily for a few hours after midday

I have a neighbour who has a gd drill on similar soil to mine. He can definitely use it in more adverse conditions than my jd will go but that is not to say that is the right thing to do.

 

[Tractor Boy]

You are treating a no-till system like a min- till system by trying to drill later. As has been mentioned in earlier replies you need to be drilling earlier. Ideally in mid to late September. Black grass is dealt with by methods other than late drilling (which didn’t seem to work last year and from what I have seen isn’t working this year) in no-till.

What other ways is blackgrass dealt with other than delayed drilling? As far as I know the best options are delayed drilling in the Autumn and in severe cases spring drilling which I am doing.

 

[yellow belly]

What other ways is blackgrass dealt with other than delayed drilling? As far as I know the best options are delayed drilling in the Autumn and in severe cases spring drilling which I am doing.

Regular spring drilling
Not bringing up bg from depth
Not burying bg seed for them to grow in the future
Spray off after drilling on the green if there is plenty of cover there is no soil open to light many weeds need clear light to germinate
Pre em on unmoved soil works much better due to the shallow rooting of the weeds This was found with pre ems in the 1970s and 80s
Kerb is a very good example giving near 100 % control
Flufenacet pendamethalin and Avadex also are more effective
Notill soil retains more moisture and needs less moisture to activate pre em
The more years notill the better the 1st couple of years are the hardest
Once the soil has adjusted it is easier
Imho This dry year will speed the process

 

[jonnyjon]

What other ways is blackgrass dealt with other than delayed drilling? As far as I know the best options are delayed drilling in the Autumn and in severe cases spring drilling which I am doing.

Diverse rotation , wheat/ rape is a 2 crop mono crop and is largely responsible for so many of todays cropping problems

 

[E_B]

Diverse rotation , wheat/ rape is a 2 crop mono crop and is largely responsible for so many of todays cropping problems

It sounds like the OP does have a diverse rotation, evidenced by having at least 50% in spring cropping. It's just that there's a stretch of soil that runs through Suffolk (as in other places) that is ungodly awful to work with. We have some, it's either baked out rock solid, or wet pug riddled in slugs. We were very lucky this year to wait until mid October before drilling some and still make a nice job of it.

 

[Bob lincs]

I’m just wondering what the answer is with regard to trying to delay drilling with a 750a on clay for blackgrass purposes. Before I had the 750 I used to have to try to finish drilling wheat with the Claydon drill by 10th October and it was always sticky drilling beans a bit later.
To help with blackgrass I am trying to delay and this season I got away with putting the wheat in between 9th and 14th October but even with a dry summer and relatively dry Autumn it is now too sticky on my hanslope clay. We haven’t had any rain for 8 days when we got 15mm but the soil is just not drying now as it stays sticky all day from overnight dew.
I have been putting beans in today on a glorious day but the gauge wheels,press wheels, guttlers and drill main wheels are all balls of mud and a lot of the drill wheelings are showing.
Basically in a year as dry as this it’s impossible to delay drilling past mid Oct. anyone got any observations or suggestions?

This is exactly why BG land +late drilling is a problem on our farm .

 

[jonnyjon]

It sounds like the OP does have a diverse rotation, evidenced by having at least 50% in spring cropping. It's just that there's a stretch of soil that runs through Suffolk (as in other places) that is ungodly awful to work with. We have some, it's either baked out rock solid, or wet pug riddled in slugs. We were very lucky this year to wait until mid October before drilling some and still make a nice job of it.

While I'm no fan of early drilling, delaying drilling for blackgrass purposes is treating a symptom, not a cure. Diverse rotation is one of the main fixes for so many problems, a mix of spring cropping helps but you can grow the same crop types in the spring so achieve very little, leaving land idle over the winter is a disaster

 

[Tractor Boy]

I’d just like to point out I do have a diverse rotation and I haven’t grown OSR for 6 years, so can hardly be tarred with the wheat/rape rotation is the problem brush.
For the last 3 seasons I have had the following crops every year: W wheat, Sp wheat, Sp Barley, Sp Oats, W beans, Sp beans, Sp peas and linseed, along with both cover and catch crops.

 

[jonnyjon]

I’d just like to point out I do have a diverse rotation and I haven’t grown OSR for 6 years, so can hardly be tarred with the wheat/rape rotation is the problem brush.
For the last 3 seasons I have had the following crops every year: W wheat, Sp wheat, Sp Barley, Sp Oats, W beans, Sp beans, Sp peas and linseed, along with both cover and catch crops.

Was just a general observation, not directed at you personally. What do you put your blackgrass problem down to?presuming you have a problem

 

[Tractor Boy]

Was just a general observation, not directed at you personally. What do you put your blackgrass problem down to?presuming you have a problem

I just don’t think you can get round having blackgrass on a clay based soil. Anyone who says they don’t have it can’t have a predominantly clay soil.
I beginning to think that it’s just a case of accepting it to a certain extent in most crops every year and putting up with it but hoping with rotation and cultural control it doesn’t get worse enough to knock yield or make cropping unviable.
I think the problem has obviously only been really noticeable in the last 3-4 years since Atlantis control became negligible.

 

[fendtfan]

I just don’t think you can get round having blackgrass on a clay based soil. Anyone who says they don’t have it can’t have a predominantly clay soil.
I beginning to think that it’s just a case of accepting it to a certain extent in most crops every year and putting up with it but hoping with rotation and cultural control it doesn’t get worse enough to knock yield or make cropping unviable.
I think the problem has obviously only been really noticeable in the last 3-4 years since Atlantis control became negligible.

Agree with having to accept a certain level of bg on this type of land.When you are not prepared to plough, the reset button has become spring cropping or double spring cropping. I would suggest the problem of blackgrass has been escalating since the demise of ipu not the negligable affect of Atlantis

 

[fendtfan]

I have a neighbour who has a gd drill on similar soil to mine. He can definitely use it in more adverse conditions than my jd will go but that is not to say that is the right thing to do.

Are you saying you should not be drilling at all if the jd wont run clean or the principal of the gd that allows it to run in more adverse conditions is inferior to the jd

 

[farmerm]

What other ways is blackgrass dealt with other than delayed drilling? As far as I know the best options are delayed drilling in the Autumn and in severe cases spring drilling which I am doing.

5 year grass lay should do the trick, 10 just to be sure

 

[Tractor Boy]

Are you saying you should not be drilling at all if the jd wont run clean or the principal of the gd that allows it to run in more adverse conditions is inferior to the jd

Not knocking the gd at all, but I know that if I went in the same conditions it would block my jd discs and gauge wheels up. I haven’t, however, got the spoked gauge wheels which would let me travel without blocking in slightly wetter conditions.

 

[Tractor Boy]

5 year grass lay should do the trick, 10 just to be sure

Probably would but I don’t know of a dairy or beef herd within 10 miles. I suppose sheep could be brought in as they are obviously easier to transport. Problem is I wouldn’t know which fields to grass down first, I have no grass equipment so it would have to be grazed rather than cut and putting any sizeable acreage down to grass could leave me twiddling my thumbs with equipment sitting idle.