deutz 5 series isobus problem

[Robt]

Pm me your details, we can help either solve it or retro fit an ISO harness and tecu

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

bump

still no luck with this, i got in touch with the head tech at deutz, but they arent very enthusiastic about solving my problem, also havent found anyone with a 5 series with isobus

14 months on, it's not a very good show from SDF for you. Keep a paper trail to prove the problem was pre-existing while still in warranty. Keep pushing to get it resolved, despite their reluctance/lack of enthusiasm.

Presumably your workshop are testing (with another terminal) that they have properly resolved the problem once they have changed bits of loom and ECU? Are the tractor and Mueller terminal both running the latest software/firmware update - there could be an incompatibility present. Easy to check with another terminal on the tractor.

Presume radar, wheel speed and link pos. are all being output correctly on the normal "analog" 7-pin ISO socket (not the ISObus socket) in cab? If your not getting the appropriate signals there then you have issues unrelated to the ISOBus / TECU / terminal.

There could of course be a problem elsewhere on the tractors main CAN-bus or other ECUs or sensors. As Rob says another complete ISObus overlay loom and TECU would prove this, but you don't want to be buying another one just to find this out. If SDF can't resolve using the factory fit loom and TECU then push very hard for them to pay for a third party loom etc under warranty. Good luck!

 

[Wombat]

By head tech do U mean at the dealer, importer, SDF daughter company, or SDF factory contact?

 

[suffeks]

i was in touch with mr Bernd Kallfass from sdf factory, i think thats as high as you get

perhaps he will email me back after the new year we will see

to re-summarize:
-the mueller touch800 has the latest firmware, it works in a 7250ttv (grabs the speed from the tractor)
-right now i have to get speed from my gps antenna, the terminal does control isobus implements, like the ZAV spreader, just cannot get speed from tractor
-dealer replaced all the wiring and ecu's, no dice
-had the regional electronics technician over a couple times, he was hooking up his computers could not find the problem, so they had to refer to factory
-still waiting on the factory for a solution
-it has been over a year now since i first told the dealer of the problem
-i cannot find a 5 series deutz with isobus in my area to test with
-im in poland, not the uk, maybe thats why i get poorer service haha

when i first got the tractor, the rear 12v plug kept shorting my chargers, it was wired backwards, the + and -. so this made me suspicious as the isobus port is right beside it, i went out and bought an isobus terminal asap because i wanted to make sure it works while it was still under warranty, and what do you know, it does not work fully... perhaps someone had a bad day at the factory wiring the cab. otherwise the tractor is great i am enjoying it alot, cvt transmissions are worth every penny!

here's a pic

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

So are you able to get wheel speed, radar and link position from the 7-pin socket in cab?

 

[suffeks]

hey, how can i check? do i need a legacy non isobus terminal? i can take a pic of all the ports i have in my cab tomorrow

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

hey, how can i check? do i need a legacy non isobus terminal? i can take a pic of all the ports i have in my cab tomorrow

Yes you can check with a (legacy) control box that takes tractor speed inputs, PTO speed etc from the round 7-pin socket in the cab. Otherwise if you have a multimeter you can also check. I will put up a pinout for the 7-pin socket in the cab.

The reason I ask is that you may be "chasing your tail" the tractor may not actually have radar, wheel speed or linkage position available from/on the ISOBUS to pickup. This would be unusual but not unheard of. If this was the case you would need to get those signals from the 7-pin socket (iso 11786 actually) and feed them directly to your Mueller terminal using an adapter cable.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Port B on your Mueller terminal allows the ISO11786 signals from the 7-pin cab socket directly into the terminal. It's a regular DSUB-9 connector on the terminal, using pins 1,5,6 and 8

See page 62 of manual:

http://www.mueller-elektronik.de/wp-content/uploads/30322538-02-EN-001_V4.20151217r2.pdf

http://www.mueller-elektronik.de/wp-content/uploads/30322538-02-PL-001_V4.20151217r2.pdf

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

On the tractor look for a round 7-pin socket, something like this...

Pin Assignment
1. Radar - True Ground Speed signal (actual forward speed of the tractor)
2. Wheel Sensor - Theoretical Ground Speed signal (product of tractor drive wheel rotational speed and the rolling wheel circumference)
3. PTO signal - Rear PTO rotational speed
4. Linkage In/Out signal - In-work /Out-of-Work (binary signal indicating three-point hitch is below/in-work or above/out-of-work and adjustable switching threshold)
5. Linkage Position signal - Position of the tractor three point linkage in the vertical plane between its lowest and highest points
6. +12V - positive power supply
7. Earth - supply ground connection

Should be able to get a 7-pin to DB-9 adapter cable from Mueller or you could make your own cable (get a DB-9 serial cable from local computer/electronics shop, or Amazon) chop one end off and then terminate the wires into a 7-pin plug:

Amphenol-Tuchel C16-1 or C16-M (eco|mate) 6+PE, male plug part no’s:
Kramp, part no. AMHT3104001
Mouser, part no. C016 10H006 000 12

Factory cable something like this....

http://shop.mueller-elektronik.de/p...so-11786-7-polig-zur-nutzung-traktor-ecu.html

 

[suffeks]

perfect, looks like i have this port, i will get a cable ordered asap! i assume if there was no TECU someone mentioned earlier, i would have heard from the get go that no speed via isobus is normal... but who knows

[/IMG]

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

perfect, looks like i have this port, i will get a cable ordered asap! i assume if there was no TECU someone mentioned earlier, i would have heard from the get go that no speed via isobus is normal... but who knows

On paper TECU ought to be fitted, well according to AEF....

Check the correct part number for the signal cable with Mueller for your terminal. The one I linked to was just an example, there might be other cables with same DB9 connector but a slightly different pin assignment for the terminal. The 7 pin connector at the tractor side will be the same. Wouldn't want you to order the wrong one and not have it work.

 

[suffeks]

damn thanks, i feel i'm already getting more accomplished than the dealer, i will order the cable from my mueller dealer, hopefully that can rule something out

btw i inquired from mueller about a hydraulic auto steer retrofit, they have nothing for the deutz 5 series, is there anything that would work with the mueller touch800? how much does a kit usually go for? i dont like the electric motors on the steering column

the 5 series ttv is fully loaded, one thing thats missing is auto steer ready and should be an option imho, but perhaps its too small of a tractor

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

btw i inquired from mueller about a hydraulic auto steer retrofit, they have nothing for the deutz 5 series, is there anything that would work with the mueller touch800? how much does a kit usually go for? i dont like the electric motors on the steering column

You'd need a kit with steering valve, wheel angle sensor and steering controller. It would need to be able to work with your existing receiver. If you wanted to use the Mueller terminal for steering display this would need to be via ISOBUS and any third party steering controller would need to be specifically ISO-compliant. It may also be a bit limiting in terms of features, functionality, screen estate/size and the sophistication of the graphics vs a native terminal.

Typically these kits are sold as one, with receiver/steering control, the necessary sensors, steering valve etc and terminal all coming (or at least bundled together) from same manufacturer - mainly to ensure it is all tested and works together. There are often ex-hire and second-hand steering systems that come up for sale (see Agriaffaires for example) that will give you a rough idea of prices.

 

[suffeks]

ok i have an update, cable arrived today from mueller

when i plug it in, i assume it should power my terminal solely with that cable? it does not

i had to connect the isobus cable to power it on, i tried both cables at once, picked all the possible speed sources besides GPS:

wheels, radar, wheels CAN, radar CAN, pulses

all were 0.00kph while driving

so safe to say this port is not working at all in my tractor?

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

ok i have an update, cable arrived today from mueller

when i plug it in, i assume it should power my terminal solely with that cable? it does not

Doesn't appear the corresponding DB-9 port on your Mueller terminal you're connecting too (port B?) has a power input - just a power pin for a connected GPS receiver. See pinout I posted above from the manual in post #28.

i had to connect the isobus cable to power it on, i tried both cables at once, picked all the possible speed sources besides GPS:

wheels, radar, wheels CAN, radar CAN, pulses

all were 0.00kph while driving

so safe to say this port is not working at all in my tractor?

Yes the 9-pin ISObus port (male pins) does has power available for your terminal.

You can check whether your getting the correct signals on the 7-pin socket out of the tractor with a multimeter. You'll get a pulsed output on pins 1, 2 and 3 depending on radar speed, wheel speed and PTO speed. Pin 4 should give either 12V or 0v depending if the rear links are up or down. Pin 5 will give a voltage between 0 and 10v depending on linkage position. Pin 6 should be 12v power supply. Pin 7 is earth.

 

[suffeks]

so i checked the cable, it seems to only have 4 strands in it, i dont have time right now to debug any more, i will check the port directly in the next couple of weeks

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Cable should be ok I think...it looks like you've just drawn the green lines with the pin numbering referenced as looking into the terminal (a male DB9 connector) and into the connector on the tractor (the female round 7-pin)....rather than looking into the cable (female DB9 and male round connector). So actually the pin numbering is a mirror image - just confuses the signal names but it's actually ok in reality.

I hope that makes sense!!

I will redraw/renumber it for you later and note the signal names on it for total clarity.

When you get a chance, get a multimeter onto the tractor 7-pin signal socket and check it, as said. If you are not getting speed, PTO revs etc from here *or* ISOBUS then there is clearly something amiss with the tractor.

 

[suffeks]

i actually checked the pins on both ends using a multimeter and drew what beeped when contacted at both ends, the D sub connector is female

the only reading i could get on multimeter was when i connected it to pins 1 and 5 on the Dsub connector (cable plugged in), it was -9.5V with ground on the #5

next time i will try all the pins directly from the socket in the cab

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

i actually checked the pins on both ends using a multimeter and drew what beeped when contacted at both ends, the D sub connector is female

the only reading i could get on multimeter was when i connected it to pins 1 and 5 on the Dsub connector (cable plugged in), it was -9.5V with ground on the #5

next time i will try all the pins directly from the socket in the cab

Yeh sorry I got myself confused with the connector genders. I've now edited my post above.

The cable only has 4 conductors as that's all the Mueller terminal will accept on that port (according to the manual).

On the DSUB connector on the cable (looking at the connector), the signals that you *should* be able to read are:

1 - wheel speed (top row, far right)
5 - ground, 0v (top row, far left)
6 - PTO revs (bottom row, far right)
8 - linkage position (bottom row, one from far left)

Note: DSUB pin numbering is opposite/mirrored to how it's drawn in diagram with green lines above.

If you're reading a voltage between pins 1 and 5 on the DSUB then it's probably the meter averaging the DC voltage for the wheel speed if you are using DC voltage function. It should be a pulsed output - have you got a frequency count function on the meter?

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

If your testing pins on the DSUB, try the PTO revs. Engage PTO so that it's rotating you should be able to read the revs (6 pulses per rev)...so at 540 PTO rpm the multimeter should read 54 Hz between pins 5 and 6

Edited - corrected my dodgy frequency maths!!! I need a glass of red.