Deutz Fuel Pick up Problems.

[Bendoonit]

Hello all, This a Series 1 Deutz Fahr Agrotron 4.95TT.
I was hoping you may help with a fuel starvation prob. On level ground it fires up and runs well. Driving downhill no problem, but when starting up a grade even fairly mild gradient, it starts to miss and runs out of fuel. To get it started I have to get it back as level as possible. I have put in new fuel filter, new fuel line, a non return valve inline before pump. And an initial see through filter before the non return valve. These are all new components trying to fix the starvation problem. The tank has two outlets one slightly higher and the fuel delivery line is on the lower of these. I removed the line and the fitting from the tank to check it. It is simply an L shaped tube with no gauze filter or straining device, it was all clear as was the fuel. Now that a clear inline filter is visible I could see the fuel level in the filter drop when I tried another uphill run. Any advice will be appreciated. Cheers, John

 

[icanshootwell]

It sounds like fuel starvation, when the tractor is pulling up hill, it needs a bit extra fuel, had this happen on a combine, there was a small hole in the fuel line near the tank end, it was sucking air therefore stopping the engine getting its full requirement, also check the fuel pump is working correctly, there may be a gauge inside the tank, we had this on an old CASE, we had to drain the tank and by the drain plug was a welded gauge inside the tank, which twit came up with that idea, long screw driver sorted that out. Good luck

 

[njneer]

Have you had the pipes off the tank recently ??
Sounds to me like you have the pick up and return lines crossed .
There are not two pick up line but a pick up and a return the pick up pipe goes all the way to the bottom of the tank and the return only goes in a few inches ,
When the tank is full it will draw fuel up the shorter pipe as it is under the fuel level but when you go up hill the fuel runs to the back of the tank and he short pipe is then above the fuel level and draws air.
Next time it draws air . Blow down both pipes one should bubble in the tank and one will be Clear the one that bubbles is the pick up.

 

[Bendoonit]

It sounds like fuel starvation, when the tractor is pulling up hill, it needs a bit extra fuel, had this happen on a combine, there was a small hole in the fuel line near the tank end, it was sucking air therefore stopping the engine getting its full requirement, also check the fuel pump is working correctly, there may be a gauge inside the tank, we had this on an old CASE, we had to drain the tank and by the drain plug was a welded gauge inside the tank, which twit came up with that idea, long screw driver sorted that out. Good luck

Yeah thanks for the feedback, The tank is plastic and there was no fitting in the outlet other than the thread that the fuel pick up pipe screwed into. The tank is over half full and it is a massive tank, all fuel line is new so no holes or loose fittings, I will take the fuel line off the pump outlet pressure side and see how well she pumps. As seems to be the common design rotary pump driven off belt at front of engine. Cheers

 

[Bendoonit]

Have you had the pipes off the tank recently ??
Sounds to me like you have the pick up and return lines crossed .
There are not two pick up line but a pick up and a return the pick up pipe goes all the way to the bottom of the tank and the return only goes in a few inches ,
When the tank is full it will draw fuel up the shorter pipe as it is under the fuel level but when you go up hill the fuel runs to the back of the tank and he short pipe is then above the fuel level and draws air.
Next time it draws air . Blow down both pipes one should bubble in the tank and one will be Clear the one that bubbles is the pick up.

Cheers for the feedback, The tank has two separate outlets which are both near the base one slightly higher (no more than 20mm) and separated some distance from the outlet. I have never had any of these removed in the past and replaced the fuel line, that was working fine previously, all the way through to the pump with a filter and non return valve. The other line which heads upwards up under the floor of the cab is difficult to trace but will take it off down at the tank and see what drains out or see if it is clear , there is over half a tank of fuel in the tank and when I took the fuel feed line off the fuel draining out was clear and flowing like a river. Will check all the fuel lines again, and see how well the fuel pump pushes on the injector pump side. Thank you for your help. Cheers

 

[Mursal]

20L chemical can on the bonnet for a test fuel tank. Pipe into lift pump (if fitted) and clip the pipe to the neck of the can, so it stays in the fuel, we usually use vice grips. One pipe will be fine for starters, let it return into the main tank. Keep an open mind to the source of the problem until you fine a cure .....
See how you go ..........

 

[Bendoonit]

20L chemical can on the bonnet for a test fuel tank. Pipe into lift pump (if fitted) and clip the pipe to the neck of the can, so it stays in the fuel, we usually use vice grips. One pipe will be fine for starters, let it return into the main tank. Keep an open mind to the source of the problem until you fine a cure .....
See how you go ..........

OK yeah that will certainly show if that pick up is the problem. Will let you know. Cheers

 

[yew2]

Bearing in fuel pump wearing out, allowing air in. Tractor will eventually become difficult to start. New pump will cure it.

 

[Bendoonit]

Bearing in fuel pump wearing out, allowing air in. Tractor will eventually become difficult to start. New pump will cure it.

I understand then that it will still pull fuel through but not the correct pressure and then when going uphill it is not quite getting all the fuel needed. If i take the belt off I would get some slight movement in the pulley from the bearing if its worn ? Thanks for your input. Cheers.

 

[Bendoonit]

Well I found a NOS genuine Deutz Pump from a seller in the UK so now waiting for the slow boat to deliver..
About as fast as a one legged kangaroo, not really going as fast as i'd like

 

[Cowcalf]

fill tank to full sorts out any cracks in stack pipe, the other way is put an electric pump ( £20 off ebay ) with a non return valve as well so fuel is pushed to engine, solves a lot of problems. a clear in line filter lets you see if any air is entering system

 

[Bendoonit]

Thanks cowcalf, however I have already put an inline clear filter and a new non return valve just prior to pump, I had also replaced fuel line, checked pick up in tank and replaced oem spin on fuel filter . Now waiting for a new pump to arrive. Cheers

 

[Mursal]

Chinese post can be slow, especially coming up to Halloween, they'd be flat out at the fireworks

 

[Bendoonit]

As I have ordered the pump from the UK as previous post stated, I'm thinkin you've been overthrown or the Chinese now call themselves the UK ?

 

[2wheels]

Thanks cowcalf, however I have already put an inline clear filter and a new non return valve just prior to pump, I had also replaced fuel line, checked pick up in tank and replaced oem spin on fuel filter . Now waiting for a new pump to arrive. Cheers

is it possible that the non return valve is the wrong way round?

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

As I have ordered the pump from the UK as previous post stated, I'm thinkin you've been overthrown or the Chinese now call themselves the UK ?

There's a lot of eBay sellers from Hong Kong or the mainland which disguise the true origin of the goods through subtle things like union flags on the advert or even boldy placing their "location" as a quasi place in the U.K. The goods invariably are shippped from China or HK.

 

[Bendoonit]

Yeah we all see how dodgy things are getting on the net, and an equal no. of dodgy buyers and sellers , I always try to communicate a couple of times with the seller and establish who they are. if it looks like a turd , smells like a turd, then its up to you not to tread in it. .

 

[Bendoonit]

is it possible that the non return valve is the wrong way round?

No its flowing fine. it starts and runs, just starves for fuel uphill. I get your thinking but am waiting for a new pump and then see how she goes... Aah the joy of modern machines..

 

[335d]

Had similar things years ago with a hairline crack on the metal feed pipe in the tank. Can be easily tested by filling the tank. With a full tank there were no issues, as the fuel level went down the problem Starts to show when the engine was working hard. Hairline crack was quite hard to see

 

[Bendoonit]

The Deutz has a plastic (PP) tank and fittings the fuel pick up tube that screws into the base of the tank - also plastic, was free of any obstruction. I have replaced all of the lines filters etc