Direct Drilling - Clay soils

[ollie989898]

The last 2 years have reminded me even on our lighter soils how important cover crops are - we can drill on the green in almost any conditions, bare stubble we can not

for what is costs a and despite not being the best cover crop agronomically a few kgs of mustard/sunflower and linseed can make a hell of a difference to how you can get on

The beans being drilled in this video were autumn 2019, not heavy soil but it was WET, nothing else was being drilled ploughed or cultivated locally that day under any establishment system, the coulters and the tyres run clean through on the green cover and the seed was going in well

Do you have a picture of that crop in the spring though?

 

[Clive]

Do you have a picture of that crop in the spring though?

yes

they didn’t yield well however but due to drought that had already started when this picture was taken not establishment

notice no tramlines? orher than glyphosate post drilling this crop received no other inputs

 

[ollie989898]

yes

View attachment 920512

they didn’t yield well however but due to drought that had already started when this picture was taken not establishment

notice no tramlines? orher than glyphosate post drilling this crop received no other inputs

Thank you. I remember at the time people were commenting on your thread with your video and were saying it was a complete mess of a drilling job but I believed it would work fine knowing how big and aggressive beans can get. Looks a great crop, just a shame about the weather but as you say, nothing was really lost because you didn't spend a lot of money on them.

 

[Badshot]

grew some black oats this year for seed but that had its challenges. Spring oats may be just as easy. Fine seed cover crops only before a spring crop

I have a field with winter oats.
Spring oats
Black oats
In different patches.
Tonnes of fast growth with spring oats, little root.
Much smaller vegetative growth but good strong , lots of root with winter oats.
Black oats similar to winter oats, but obviously much more expensive.
Conclusion, if it's to be grazed in autumn, use spring oats.
Over winter use winter oats.
Black oats, overpriced.

 

[cows r us]

Why???
Plenty of tilling farmers keep their ditches tidy and drainage sorted, and probably some DD farmers don't.

Sorry I'm not trying to say tilling farmer neglect drainage. We probably got away with poor drainage when tilling. We can't get away with it now we are no till.
We never had the time to get it done in the past. Now we aren't cultivating it has freed up a lot of man hours in the autumn to get the job done properly.

 

[ajd132]

Sorry I'm not trying to say tilling farmer neglect drainage. We probably got away with poor drainage when tilling. We can't get away with it now we are no till.
We never had the time to get it done in the past. Now we aren't cultivating it has freed up a lot of man hours in the autumn to get the job done properly.

Without a doubt tilling hides problems, there is no getting away from it in no till. We now mole drain in the spring through crops and it works really well.

 

[richheady]

Thanks for all the great advice. Moving from min-till we have been too worried about blackgrass to start drilling early, but our earliest direct drilled fields are pretty clean, so I will grow some balls and start earlier next year. we have defiantly learned our lesson that in the wet the drill will go, but it wont necessarily grow.
Like others have mentioned our cover crops have been very slow growing and disappointing this year, I plan to steal a couple of weeks next year and spin some cover crop seed into the standing crops (use my savings from spinning and not drilling to up the seed rate to compensate for slugs etc)
We have been lazy with drainage in the past, and so did a fair bit of mole ploughing this year, but it has left the fields very uneven, how do you sort this out, or do I just need to give it time to settle?

 

[cows r us]

Thanks for all the great advice. Moving from min-till we have been too worried about blackgrass to start drilling early, but our earliest direct drilled fields are pretty clean, so I will grow some balls and start earlier next year. we have defiantly learned our lesson that in the wet the drill will go, but it wont necessarily grow.
Like others have mentioned our cover crops have been very slow growing and disappointing this year, I plan to steal a couple of weeks next year and spin some cover crop seed into the standing crops (use my savings from spinning and not drilling to up the seed rate to compensate for slugs etc)
We have been lazy with drainage in the past, and so did a fair bit of mole ploughing this year, but it has left the fields very uneven, how do you sort this out, or do I just need to give it time to settle?

I'm with you Rich. We are also going to be drilling earlier next year, two years of spring cropping will have done wonders for our blackgrass control.

 

[YELROM]

I'm with you Rich. We are also going to be drilling earlier next year, two years of spring cropping will have done wonders for our blackgrass control.

How early will you start drilling

 

[ajd132]

Thanks for all the great advice. Moving from min-till we have been too worried about blackgrass to start drilling early, but our earliest direct drilled fields are pretty clean, so I will grow some balls and start earlier next year. we have defiantly learned our lesson that in the wet the drill will go, but it wont necessarily grow.
Like others have mentioned our cover crops have been very slow growing and disappointing this year, I plan to steal a couple of weeks next year and spin some cover crop seed into the standing crops (use my savings from spinning and not drilling to up the seed rate to compensate for slugs etc)
We have been lazy with drainage in the past, and so did a fair bit of mole ploughing this year, but it has left the fields very uneven, how do you sort this out, or do I just need to give it time to settle?

We roll after moling through spring crops it’s still abit uneven but have drilled 130ha of winter barley into and it’s fine. We do have a maidwell moler which does leave it fairly level.

 

[cows r us]

How early will you start drilling

I'm not sure yet. I guess it will depend on the season. I would like to move it into September rather than October though.

 

[YELROM]

I'm not sure yet. I guess it will depend on the season. I would like to move it into September rather than October though.

This is what i'm thinking after having next to nothing sown for the second year

 

[Two Tone]

Direct drilling on heavy clay soils is tricky. There is a lot of great advice out there, but from those on many different soil types. As direct drilling hinges on soil I thought it would be useful to have a thread based on heavy-ish clay soils alone.

just to kick it of; we have a Weaving GD which is great in dryer conditions, but I have not had great success in wet Autumns. Should I be looking at a tine option for wetter scenarios?

I have experienced a similar situation to you this Autumn where we have used a GD on Heavy land, especially after Spring Oats.
It was drilled in really good conditions about 26th September.
I used the GD on all sorts of land to drill my Winter Linseed in late August and am thrilled how it all looks!
I ploughed and Combi-drilled most of my Winter Barley around 20th Sept. I did so because those field aren’t quite ready for zero-TIL just yet and I had heard that it can be a little more difficult with Winter Barley than Wheat.

My reasoning for wanting to use the GD is because of its absolute minimal soil disturbance for Blackgrass control reasons.

I’m fairly certain that the reason my wheat is struggle on the heavier land is because it has now ha over 9” of rain since it was drilled and before it had a chance to germinate and grow. The Spray stack of 4 litres of Crystal plus 0.2 of DFF, followed by Avadex also hasn’t helped. This was proved by BASF doing a trial in one field where the wheat in their Control plot is growing nicely

This photo was taken 19th Oct and it has improved somewhat since. But still isn’t great.

However, I am now wondering if I had drilled these fields before I Combi-drilled the Barley, if they would have got away before the serious rain events in early October would have had their stunting effect.

I was discussing this exact situation with @cotswold farmer 1977 this morning who is experiencing exactly the same situation where he has used his new Claydon this Autumn.

We both now think we should have drilled EARLIER!
Which in this day and age goes somewhat against the grain!

 

[tr250]

We roll after moling through spring crops it’s still abit uneven but have drilled 130ha of winter barley into and it’s fine. We do have a maidwell moler which does leave it fairly level.

Do you have a twin leg moler? I struggle with a single leg because it doesn’t pull wheelings out

 

[Bury the Trash]

I have experienced a similar situation to you this Autumn where we have used a GD on Heavy land, especially after Spring Oats.
It was drilled in really good conditions about 26th September.
I used the GD on all sorts of land to drill my Winter Linseed in late August and am thrilled how it all looks!
I ploughed and Combi-drilled most of my Winter Barley around 20th Sept. I did so because those field aren’t quite ready for zero-TIL just yet and I had heard that it can be a little more difficult with Winter Barley than Wheat.

My reasoning for wanting to use the GD is because of its absolute minimal soil disturbance for Blackgrass control reasons.

I’m fairly certain that the reason my wheat is struggle on the heavier land is because it has now ha over 9” of rain since it was drilled and before it had a chance to germinate and grow. The Spray stack of 4 litres of Crystal plus 0.2 of DFF, followed by Avadex also hasn’t helped. This was proved by BASF doing a trial in one field where the wheat in their Control plot is growing nicely
View attachment 920626
This photo was taken 19th Oct and it has improved somewhat since. But still isn’t great.

However, I am now wondering if I had drilled these fields before I Combi-drilled the Barley, if they would have got away before the serious rain events in early October would have had their stunting effect.

I was discussing this exact situation with @cotswold farmer 1977 this morning who is experiencing exactly the same situation where he has used his new Claydon this Autumn.

We both now think we should have drilled EARLIER!
Which in this day and age goes somewhat against the grain!

ohdear nots o good then

 

[Fuzzy]

I have experienced a similar situation to you this Autumn where we have used a GD on Heavy land, especially after Spring Oats.
It was drilled in really good conditions about 26th September.
I used the GD on all sorts of land to drill my Winter Linseed in late August and am thrilled how it all looks!
I ploughed and Combi-drilled most of my Winter Barley around 20th Sept. I did so because those field aren’t quite ready for zero-TIL just yet and I had heard that it can be a little more difficult with Winter Barley than Wheat.

My reasoning for wanting to use the GD is because of its absolute minimal soil disturbance for Blackgrass control reasons.

I’m fairly certain that the reason my wheat is struggle on the heavier land is because it has now ha over 9” of rain since it was drilled and before it had a chance to germinate and grow. The Spray stack of 4 litres of Crystal plus 0.2 of DFF, followed by Avadex also hasn’t helped. This was proved by BASF doing a trial in one field where the wheat in their Control plot is growing nicely
View attachment 920626
This photo was taken 19th Oct and it has improved somewhat since. But still isn’t great.

However, I am now wondering if I had drilled these fields before I Combi-drilled the Barley, if they would have got away before the serious rain events in early October would have had their stunting effect.

I was discussing this exact situation with @cotswold farmer 1977 this morning who is experiencing exactly the same situation where he has used his new Claydon this Autumn.

We both now think we should have drilled EARLIER!
Which in this day and age goes somewhat against the grain!

I understood the golden rule of DD is 2 weeks earlier in the autumn and 2 weeks later in the spring !

 

[ajd132]

Do you have a twin leg moler? I struggle with a single leg because it doesn’t pull wheelings out

Yeh it is

 

[ajd132]

this was drilled in a short break in the rain around October 12th. Walks a treat and water seems to be percolating really well. It’s not perfect but really pleased considering the conditions. this was where we had the most slug pressure too. Really pleased here catch crops have made a massive difference. The plants look healthy which I don’t think they would if it had been mailed into cultivated land.

 

[Clive]

I have experienced a similar situation to you this Autumn where we have used a GD on Heavy land, especially after Spring Oats.
It was drilled in really good conditions about 26th September.
I used the GD on all sorts of land to drill my Winter Linseed in late August and am thrilled how it all looks!
I ploughed and Combi-drilled most of my Winter Barley around 20th Sept. I did so because those field aren’t quite ready for zero-TIL just yet and I had heard that it can be a little more difficult with Winter Barley than Wheat.

My reasoning for wanting to use the GD is because of its absolute minimal soil disturbance for Blackgrass control reasons.

I’m fairly certain that the reason my wheat is struggle on the heavier land is because it has now ha over 9” of rain since it was drilled and before it had a chance to germinate and grow. The Spray stack of 4 litres of Crystal plus 0.2 of DFF, followed by Avadex also hasn’t helped. This was proved by BASF doing a trial in one field where the wheat in their Control plot is growing nicely
View attachment 920626
This photo was taken 19th Oct and it has improved somewhat since. But still isn’t great.

However, I am now wondering if I had drilled these fields before I Combi-drilled the Barley, if they would have got away before the serious rain events in early October would have had their stunting effect.

I was discussing this exact situation with @cotswold farmer 1977 this morning who is experiencing exactly the same situation where he has used his new Claydon this Autumn.

We both now think we should have drilled EARLIER!
Which in this day and age goes somewhat against the grain!

my rule of thumb is we drill 2 weeks earlier in the autumn and 2 weeks later in the spring than we would if we cultivated

 

[ajd132]

my rule of thumb is we drill 2 weeks earlier in the autumn and 2 weeks later in the spring than we would if we cultivated

2 weeks later on clay In spring doesn’t work because if it goes dry (which it often does) the slots just open up because of the magnesium. Time drills are better. A few days is usually enough for it to run well. On clay spring cereals need to go in as early as possible (well) for max yield. I’ve seen 3t/ha difference in 2 weeks difference in drill date.
I agree 2 weeks earlier in the autumn.