Direct Drilling - Clay soils

[YELROM]

View attachment 920660
this was drilled in a short break in the rain around October 12th. Walks a treat and water seems to be percolating really well. It’s not perfect but really pleased considering the conditions. this was where we had the most slug pressure too. Really pleased here catch crops have made a massive difference. The plants look healthy which I don’t think they would if it had been mailed into cultivated land.

How wide row spacings it the wheat

 

[ajd132]

How wide row spacings it the wheat

250mm

 

[Two Tone]

ohdear nots o good then

It’s a learning curve, that’s for sure. But I’m not put off. How often do we see such rain deluges In October?
The cost of establishing this crop was fractional compared to plough-Combi system, using 1/8th the amount of fuel.
The seed was home-saved.
There will a be few patches that I might re-drill, possibly with Spring Wheat. I have both available, home-saved.
I won’t bother treating that seed either.
On the medium land and heavy land that wasn’t Spring Oats last year, my GD’d wheat crop looks fantastic!

my rule of thumb is we drill 2 weeks earlier in the autumn and 2 weeks later in the spring than we would if we cultivated

I understood the golden rule of DD is 2 weeks earlier in the autumn and 2 weeks later in the spring !

Thanks for this.
I’d be quite happy to drill earlier with the GD, starting about 14th September. I used to start then years ago.
The only thing is, there might not be time for a cover crop to be worthwhile. There just wasn’t time this year either.

My plan A for next year will definitely be to drill earlier and hopefully with the whole farm with the GD. But if I do end up plough and combi drilling any of it, this will be planted last, after I’ve finished drilling the GD’d land.

 

[YELROM]

250mm

Do you find any negative affect with the wide row spacing, looking to get a tine drill to sow cereals but a bit concerned about the wider row spacings on some of them like the Horsch Sprinter

 

[Warnesworth]

Direct drilling on heavy clay soils is tricky. There is a lot of great advice out there, but from those on many different soil types. As direct drilling hinges on soil I thought it would be useful to have a thread based on heavy-ish clay soils alone.

just to kick it of; we have a Weaving GD which is great in dryer conditions, but I have not had great success in wet Autumns. Should I be looking at a tine option for wetter scenarios?

Yes.

 

[farmerfred86]

2 weeks later on clay In spring doesn’t work because if it goes dry (which it often does) the slots just open up because of the magnesium. Time drills are better. A few days is usually enough for it to run well. On clay spring cereals need to go in as early as possible (well) for max yield. I’ve seen 3t/ha difference in 2 weeks difference in drill date.
I agree 2 weeks earlier in the autumn.

We have to get a lot better at ZT in the spring here, I still cant decide between destroy in Jan and drill on the green. I'd much rather keep the cover all winter into Feb/March but things can change so quickly that time of year.

 

[Warnesworth]

It’s a learning curve, that’s for sure. But I’m not put off. How often do we see such rain deluges In October?
The cost of establishing this crop was fractional compared to plough-Combi system, using 1/8th the amount of fuel.
The seed was home-saved.
There will a be few patches that I might re-drill, possibly with Spring Wheat. I have both available, home-saved.
I won’t bother treating that seed either.
On the medium land and heavy land that wasn’t Spring Oats last year, my GD’d wheat crop looks fantastic!



Thanks for this.
I’d be quite happy to drill earlier with the GD, starting about 14th September. I used to start then years ago.
The only thing is, there might not be time for a cover crop to be worthwhile. There just wasn’t time this year either.

My plan A for next year will definitely be to drill earlier and hopefully with the whole farm with the GD. But if I do end up plough and combi drilling any of it, this will be planted last, after I’ve finished drilling the GD’d land.

I don't believe you drilled that too late @Two Tone. Nobody could have forseen the rain that arrived on the first weekend of October. For me the first rule of any drilling is the soil condition. If its not going well and producing the right result then forget it and come back another day. If we didn't learn that last year then we need to be thinking about doing something different i.e. change your job.

IMHO trying to drill into wet soil with either a disc or tine is a one way ticket to disappointment.

 

[ajd132]

Do you find any negative affect with the wide row spacing, looking to get a tine drill to sow cereals but a bit concerned about the wider row spacings on some of them like the Horsch Sprinter

Not worried

 

[ajd132]

We have to get a lot better at ZT in the spring here, I still cant decide between destroy in Jan and drill on the green. I'd much rather keep the cover all winter into Feb/March but things can change so quickly that time of year.

I’m going to kill mine off fairly soon

 

[l'ordinary bonville]

We have to get a lot better at ZT in the spring here, I still cant decide between destroy in Jan and drill on the green. I'd much rather keep the cover all winter into Feb/March but things can change so quickly that time of year.

My very first spring direct drilling with a tine was this spring.
Bare stubbles and Jan sprayed covers drilled well and came well. Drilled into the green it stayed wetter longer. Because the drill was here on demo I drilles slightly earlier than maybe i should have. It left slots more open and reduced establishment, especially as it dried out very quickly this spring when the drought started.
Next year i will spray off in Jan. If i don't get it all done i will be more patient with the drill into green cover. I now own the drill so can afford to wait.

Heavy high mag clay here only exacerbates the effect of drilling green into damp soil

 

[ajd132]

My very first spring direct drilling with a tine was this spring.
Bare stubbles and Jan sprayed covers drilled well and came well. Drilled into the green it stayed wetter longer. Because the drill was here on demo I drilles slightly earlier than maybe i should have. It left slots more open and reduced establishment, especially as it dried out very quickly this spring when the drought started.
Next year i will spray off in Jan. If i don't get it all done i will be more patient with the drill into green cover. I now own the drill so can afford to wait.

Heavy high mag clay here only exacerbates the effect of drilling green into damp soil

Agree

 

[farmerfred86]

It was an unusual spring being so dry and drilled easily on heavy clay here but could so easily have been a wet mess. The disc drill slots opened up from the heat but maintained the moisture down below which kept the crop growing.
If i had more patience in the spring it would probably help but we grown a large amount of malting barley that usually makes spec because its drilled early.

 

[teslacoils]

We will be destroying our cover crops before the end of the month.

 

[Andrew K]

We will be destroying our cover crops before the end of the month.

How much life is left in them, and whats the following crop please?

 

[Two Tone]

I don't believe you drilled that too late @Two Tone. Nobody could have forseen the rain that arrived on the first weekend of October. For me the first rule of any drilling is the soil condition. If its not going well and producing the right result then forget it and come back another day. If we didn't learn that last year then we need to be thinking about doing something different i.e. change your job.

IMHO trying to drill into wet soil with either a disc or tine is a one way ticket to disappointment.

Yes, I agree.
The thing with that block was that it was drilled into ideal conditions. Not too dry and certainly not too wet.
I picked up something from @ajd132 about not forcing it and took note.
It was what happened afterwards, particularly that very wet first weekend in October that hammered it.
Had it have had the chance to germinate and be emerging before that rain event, it would look perfectly normal now.
It is now looking better every day, thanks to the dry week we had last week and despite the continued wet since.

When are we going to see normal rain again rather than these monsoon deluges we seem to get this Autumn?
And when can I finally put the bloody lawn mower away for winter? Every time I think this will be the last cut and it keeps on growing!

 

[teslacoils]

How much life is left in them, and whats the following crop please?

Bloomin loads. Following crop spring barley.

A field of shed oats is now more than knee high. If it wasn't in stewardship I'd have it mowed for silage.

 

[ajd132]

Yes, I agree.
The thing with that block was that it was drilled into ideal conditions. Not too dry and certainly not too wet.
I picked up something from @ajd132 about not forcing it and took note.
It was what happened afterwards, particularly that very wet first weekend in October that hammered it.
Had it have had the chance to germinate and be emerging before that rain event, it would look perfectly normal now.
It is now looking better every day, thanks to the dry week we had last week and despite the continued wet since.

When are we going to see normal rain again rather than these monsoon deluges we seem to get this Autumn?
And when can I finally put the bloody lawn mower away for winter? Every time I think this will be the last cut and it keeps on growing!

If it takes a real pasting rain wise within the week after drilling especially with a disc drill into stubble with no cover it can really f**k it.

 

[ajd132]

I would add that as others have said a tine drill is an important tool in the box and can be done very cheaply. The majority of crap no till crops I have seen are when people only have a disc drill and are determined to use it where it should not be used. This is even more important on clay.

 

[yellow belly]

On heavy land drill the spring crops later if there is a black grass seed bank

2 or 3 years spring crops if bad black grass levels


then if black grass in the break crops is very low plant in September unless the soil is so dry 2011 or 2018
then wait an extra week
use Avadex pays for wild oat control plus’s the ffct pdm stack
use Glyphosate carefully on the green up to crop emergence
no need to use glyphosate any earlier in the autumn

beans take a long time to emerge
one year 2014 I could have sprayed the bg off that emerged after drilling and was green all over drilled late March
april planted beans often yield higher than March planted on heavy land

 

[yellow belly]

I would add that as others have said a tine drill is an important tool in the box and can be done very cheaply. The majority of crap no till crops I have seen are when people only have a disc drill and are determined to use it where it should not be used. This is even more important on clay.

If it’s too wet for a disc drill wait if you have no other option
2020 and 2013 spring crops were better than badly planted winter crops tine or disc drill the bonus with a forced spring crop is extra black grass reduction
I have seen this in 2000 2008 2013 2020 and possibly 1987
bare land set-aside is worse than any other option