Direct Drilling - Clay soils

[ajd132]

It's not pointless if you're going to go through with a cultivator. Tbh I'd not consider it roguable unless you can do an acre an hour (first pass) and two acres an hour (second pass). But then what do I know in my max-till based madness.

I should have caveated that if you have a big seed bank lurking on the soil profile like me, then it seems fairly pointless to me I’m afraid.

 

[Badshot]

I am thinking now our blackgrass is down to much lower levels we should start rouging it. I think this is pretty pointless if you are going to go through with a cultivator and bring up old seeds but I reckon in no till it could be really effective.
If it allows me to drill in September and use less herbicide then £40-50/ha (maximum) on a good rouging team should be money well spent. Obviously that would not be ever acre every year and would hopefully also mean after a couple years you would barely need them, especially as the soils change and are no longer as favourable to BG?

It is possible.
I do my couple hundred acres as I do the flag spray and ear wash.
Maybe a week to do the lot, on my own.
I've got the dreaded BG down to very low levels emerging, there's plenty there still if disturbed.

 

[teslacoils]

I should have caveated that if you have a big seed bank lurking on the soil profile like me, then it seems fairly pointless to me I’m afraid.

What I'm saying is, that if you have a roguable population in-crop under any system, then you really ought be pulling them out.

 

[Hindsight]

I should have caveated that if you have a big seed bank lurking on the soil profile like me, then it seems fairly pointless to me I’m afraid.

But over time the seed bank should (will!?) decline. Three years I reckon from observation. My observation is thus the cycle of seed bank within a field, or more likely patches within a field, is the issue - in main it is imperative to reduce to as zero as possible seed return. Am not encouraging you to cultivate by the way.

 

[Warnesworth]

Agrovista will now sell you liquid gypsum

So how does that work with only a tiny amount of total sulphur applied?

 

[Warnesworth]

What are the circumstances?

If your calcium saturation levels are too high the sulphur in the gypsum will strip out the soil calcium in preference to the magnesium and leave behind.... more calcium. No effect. Too little soil calcium and your soil won't drain well enough to move the epsom salts you have created through the soil profile. net effect - nowt has changed. Gypsum is not a silver bullet.

 

[Warnesworth]

Extremely high mag clay soils with indices of 6+ that are tough and tight.
Still not convinced we will solve the problem with gypsum though.

You probably won't as your calcium levels will probably also be too high.

 

[l'ordinary bonville]

You probably won't as your calcium levels will probably also be too high.

They're not too high. Tests generally come back at the low end of normal 2 to 2-
Mag usually comes back at 5-7!!!

 

[teslacoils]

I've two blocks of land. Two adjacent fields have calcium of 3300ppm with mag at 460. The other has calcium at 4400ppm and mag at 61. There's a ditch in-between them. That aside, the soils test very similarly. I know why they are different. They work very differently. The same is true of other adjoining fields with historically different owners. All drained. All in combinable crops.

 

[ajd132]

So how does that work with only a tiny amount of total sulphur applied?

You tell me, just noticed they are trying to get people to buy it. Don’t see how it can do much!

 

[Warnesworth]

They're not too high. Tests generally come back at the low end of normal 2 to 2-
Mag usually comes back at 5-7!!!

you routinely test for calcium?

 

[Warnesworth]

You tell me, just noticed they are trying to get people to buy it. Don’t see how it can do much!

no idea, it was a rhetorical question though.

 

[l'ordinary bonville]

you routinely test for calcium?

Not really but more so since applying gypsum for the last 10 years to decide which fields to target and compare lab analysis with soil physical properties.
Basically all our clay soils are very high in Mag but low in Ca.

Trouble is they are so high in mag that i wonder whether we are wasting our money and efforts applying endless quantities of gypsum, which is cheap in our area, but cost £5 a tonne to haul and £3-4 to spread

 

[Brisel]

Not really but more so since applying gypsum for the last 10 years to decide which fields to target and compare lab analysis with soil physical properties.
Basically all our clay soils are very high in Mag but low in Ca.

Trouble is they are so high in mag that i wonder whether we are wasting our money and efforts applying endless quantities of gypsum, which is cheap in our area, but cost £5 a tonne to haul and £3-4 to spread

What kind of gypsum is that? Recycled plasterboard? Is it clean?

 

[l'ordinary bonville]

Yes and yes

What kind of gypsum is that? Recycled plasterboard? Is it clean?

Yes and yes
You'll see it here and there tipped in heaps. Comes from near Barnard Castle. I'm surprised if your farm hasn't used it

 

[Brisel]

Yes and yes

Yes and yes
You'll see it here and there tipped in heaps. Comes from near Barnard Castle. I'm surprised if your farm hasn't used it

Thanks. One of our contract farming clients has used it quite a lot at Little Smeaton just up the road from you. I'll ask our resident guru whether he has used it in the past. Historic soil sample tests put our Mg levels similar to yours but no Ca tested for.

 

[nonemouse]

What kind of gypsum is that? Recycled plasterboard? Is it clean?

Agricore, Roary McKibben is the contact, it is very clean recycled plasterboard, like @l’ordinary bonville have used a fair bit in last 10 years, in the early days you did used to get it cheaper for taking it when they were running out of storage. We usually spread our own with muck spreaders,

 

[Brisel]

Agricore, Roary McKibben is the contact, it is very clean recycled plasterboard, like @l’ordinary bonville have used a fair bit in last 10 years, in the early days you did used to get it cheaper for taking it when they were running out of storage. We usually spread our own with muck spreaders,

Cheers. I've found their web page here now. Our mum spreading contractor runs Bunnings with spinning discs for the sewage cake so that ought to do a half decent job. What widths do you spread at and what spreaders are they please? Do you have to take it all year round?

 

[teslacoils]

Application rate....

 

[Brisel]

Application rate....

5 t/ha, apparently