Direct Drilling from scratch. A completely fair and unbiased trial. Advice needed!

[Douglasmn]

Having tried (and basically failed) with a Claydon drill a few years ago and now gone back to conventional methods on a WW, SB, potatoes, WW, SB, peas, grass rotation I'm looking to potentially take a 6 acre field(so neither really here nor there in terms of size/money!) out of grass(been grass for the last 10 years) and try and make a real success from a reduced tillage system. I'm completely aware of all the benefits of reduced tillage, it's just a case of the practicalities of making it work! My rough plan would be to spray it off with roundup in early August and then sow wheat in September. I'm looking for advice from anyone with direct knowledge and experience in reduced tillage for how to make it work well from day one. Rotation, drills to use(will use contractors), sowing dates, cover crops, to graze or not to graze etc are all to be decided based on input on this thread...assuming people read and reply! I will post regular photos and updates so everyone can benefit from the thread. Soil is kind and historically easy-working. I'd say ideal for no-till, strip-till etc. I'd leave a grass margin round the edge and top it regularly to keep weeds under control form the fence line, and also include a sterile strip. In the long term I'd like to eventually do the same across the whole farm, but ONLY once I've seen it work with my own eyes on this 1 small field. The first step then is to decide on how best to establish the initial wheat crop after the grass. Thanks for reading and contributing!

 

[green giant]

The wheat I drilled straight into grass with the DTS work well, you'll have seen the drilling and results on my thread.

Look forward to following your thread. Best off luck to you

 

[Feldspar]

I forget, why did you give up with the Claydon?

 

[Douglasmn]

I forget, why did you give up with the Claydon?

Just wasn't a success. To be fair some crops were good though, so I could see the potential. I blame the management(so me!) and not the drill. Didn't have a proper plan on how to make it work, just thought could buy a new drill and life would be easy. The plan with this trial field is to find a system that works. When to muck, to bale or to chop, fert or no fert at drilling etc. I think most important will be rotation and disc or tine drill.

 

[Jim Bullock]

Why not visit Groundswell at the end of June ? It is a good opportunity to see a good selection of drills along the opportunity to network with 500 plus like minded direct drillers. You could always join BASE-UK

 

[Simon Chiles]

Having tried (and basically failed) with a Claydon drill a few years ago and now gone back to conventional methods on a WW, SB, potatoes, WW, SB, peas, grass rotation I'm looking to potentially take a 6 acre field(so neither really here nor there in terms of size/money!) out of grass(been grass for the last 10 years) and try and make a real success from a reduced tillage system. I'm completely aware of all the benefits of reduced tillage, it's just a case of the practicalities of making it work! My rough plan would be to spray it off with roundup in early August and then sow wheat in September. I'm looking for advice from anyone with direct knowledge and experience in reduced tillage for how to make it work well from day one. Rotation, drills to use(will use contractors), sowing dates, cover crops, to graze or not to graze etc are all to be decided based on input on this thread...assuming people read and reply! I will post regular photos and updates so everyone can benefit from the thread. Soil is kind and historically easy-working. I'd say ideal for no-till, strip-till etc. I'd leave a grass margin round the edge and top it regularly to keep weeds under control form the fence line, and also include a sterile strip. In the long term I'd like to eventually do the same across the whole farm, but ONLY once I've seen it work with my own eyes on this 1 small field. The first step then is to decide on how best to establish the initial wheat crop after the grass. Thanks for reading and contributing!

If you want to test your management skills you've probably picked the hardest way to start especially in a wet autumn. Probably the easiest crop to grow in this situation would be beans. If you're set on growing wheat I'd prefer to spray the grass off much earlier than August if at all possible. I'd also use Austral seed dressing for the next 3 years and keep an eye on when the soil starts to get wet and be prepared to spread some prilled lime to help the situation.

 

[Douglasmn]

If you want to test your management skills you've probably picked the hardest way to start especially in a wet autumn. Probably the easiest crop to grow in this situation would be beans. If you're set on growing wheat I'd prefer to spray the grass off much earlier than August if at all possible. I'd also use Austral seed dressing for the next 3 years and keep an eye on when the soil starts to get wet and be prepared to spread some prilled lime to help the situation.

Exactly the kind of advice I'm looking for. Although I'm open to most ideas, we've never grown beans here before and logistically would just be a bit of a headache. Won't totally rule it out though. We average around 30 inches per year, so not especially wet in general. What would be your ideal spraying and seeding dates? Seed rate and fert at drilling? Thanks.

 

[Sitting Pretty]

Drills to choose from in say 30 mile radias from your place would be a Crosslot, JD 750, Claydon, Sumo DTS, Aitchison & Moore Unidrill. Can't think of any others.

 

[Clive]

Potatoes ? Not sure notill is ever going to work in a rotation with roots

 

[Douglasmn]

Potatoes ? Not sure notill is ever going to work in a rotation with roots

This trial field would be totally seperate from the farm standard rotation. Rotation for this field to be decided based on this forum input.

 

[Clive]

This trial field would be totally seperate from the farm standard rotation. Rotation for this field to be decided based on this forum input.

First thing to get right is the rotation - drilll etc really doesn't matter to much

If you want grow potatoes in the future I would personally forget notill and look again at strip till drills

When the Claydon failed / underperformed what was this down to ?

 

[Douglasmn]

The potatoe land is contracted out. Not a guarantee to grow them on farm forever. No proper change of farm rotation/strategy to make the Claydon work. Just bought it and carried on like before. Some good crops which proved ploughing isn't necessary to get a crop to grow, but brome quickly appeared in 2nd wheats and too many thin areas under the chopped straw where the slugs just went mad. The current system is basically working well and leaving money in the bank, but I think it could be better and a 6 acre trial field seems like a safe place to start. Any suggestions on how to make first wheat crop establish well?

 

[yellow belly]

The problem you may have is that it take a number of years for some fields to be better than average for no till but picking the best in advance is impossible to predict

 

[Richard III]

I agree with @Clive , start with your rotation. Whereabouts in the country are you farming and which combinable crops are you happy growing?

 

[Douglasmn]

I agree with @Clive , start with your rotation. Whereabouts in the country are you farming and which combinable crops are you happy growing?

Scottish Borders. Rotation is to be decided from forum input! So definitely not going to just stick with what has worked before under the full-cultivation system. I'm open to growing anything really, but we've never grown beans before due to the logistics of getting them dried. Not totally ruling them out though. Wheat, oats, osr etc all obviously no problem. Also the field can have as many cover crops as needed and can be grazed by sheep or cattle without any hassle.

 

[BSH]

You could consider putting in forage rape after the grass and grazing with sheep over the winter and then putting in a spring cereal? Oats or barley?
I would suggest that cover crops that werent grazed over winter would be a mistake as they would mess up your spring cropping. I think growing a legume int he rotation regularily is a must. What can you grow practically in your area? Do you have stock? If you are able to utilise some crops with your own stock it could make your choices wider. Personally I am doing a cereal and then a break crop alternately but you may want the odd second cereal. If you do it is best to bale the straw between straw crops. Keep i mind the principles of wide rotation, minimal disturbance and cover. Forget spuds or other root crops and rape.

 

[Jamin]

I'm with those who have said follow grass with beans or spring cereal. Biggest issue behind grass with be leather jackets and wire worm. I would consider delaying your trial for a while. Pull up grass in good time then leave bare for a while to let natural predators reduce leather jacket numbers. Pop in a late cover crop and ideally do a spring beans after cover crop. U may find although not what u ideally want to do it may set u up the best in the longer term

 

[Will Blackburn]

I'm finding the biggest issue after grass is N lock up. Quite a big difference in the wheat sown after grass with dairy muck and that without. Whereas the W. beans haven't blinked after grass on the same field, without muck.