I thats it
Member
Just to be clear I meant if you kept stock out of the field rather than out wintering
Discuss
- Thread starter Beef farmer
- Start date
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
will it carry stock well ?
ollie989898
Member
It would be interesting to put these herbal leys into a tightly defined experiment and see how much herbage you can take off, how much animal performance you can get per season and also measure the root mass/soil OM after 4 years and compare it to other systems on the same dirt?
- Location
- Welshpool Powys
Proper livestock salad there peter
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Pamper it - plants have memories and it defines how they behave and express themselves.
You should have seen this place 3 years ago when we moved in - acres of thistles and docks, literally 10% of the farm.
We've largely used the stock as tools, high density grazing but the real key for us has been a grazing chart and more water pipe - I'm moving cattle 4x per day at the moment, 220,000kg/ha stocking pressure.
Next year we're upping the stocking rate (again) to 160 cattle on 42ha, plus 70 sheep and 25 calves.
No fert, no lime, just mimicking nature's migration - less grazings but more density when they are grazing, hence the multiple moves (takes roughly 5 min to put them over/wind up a fence).
In a dairy context, it can be as simple as splitting their day feed with a fence or two and rolling them up to get the herd excited and moving as one, to achieve the extra density and intake.
Cows never work overtime, but we can make their grazing far more effective
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Costs me nart
- Location
- Northern Ireland
Agree to a point. However the most successful species depends on what you are measuring for. Persistence and yield are mostly in competition with each other. Our natural species here just don't perform in the same way as PRG. They are later to get going, less digestible, and yield less. If it wasn't so, we wouldn't have taken to reseeding with PRG decades ago. Of course PRG is less persistent, but there's a sacrifice in everything.
I don't deny that at some point in the future, the cost or reseeding (or political pressure) may outweigh the yield benefit of ryegrass, and we let it revert to natural species. But theres some way to go to that.
I don't deny that at some point in the future, the cost or reseeding (or political pressure) may outweigh the yield benefit of ryegrass, and we let it revert to natural species. But theres some way to go to that.
Hover craft
ollie989898
Member
I wonder, would there be any traction in crossing PRG or similar with the more naturalised species, I know fescues have been tried, but what about smooth stalk meadow grass?
The quality and yield of a ryegrass but the persistence and toughness of a weed?
I also wonder about how persistent a mixed sward could be if the clover etc was there in symbiosis with the grass?
The quality and yield of a ryegrass but the persistence and toughness of a weed?I also wonder about how persistent a mixed sward could be if the clover etc was there in symbiosis with the grass?
- Location
- Northern Ireland
Sheep have a lot to answer for.
Lambs for a start
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Persistence can easily be managed in - by managing not to burn them out, and allowing proper recovery if they do get nailed.
But if you managed a fruit tree the same way, you'd not get any fruit, and if you had to plant new trees every 5 years you'd go broke...
The real key with PRG is totally opposite to most production systems: hooning it along with nitrogen, keep "on top of it" all the time, and never letting it be for a moment too long.
And of course when it goes reproductive, it suppresses other plants, which other grasses don't.
...and it has quite narrow leaves, which is why it likes being bought some energy..
So there are other grasses easily as good if not better depending on management parameters.
PRG has a place but I certainly don't base my own management for it or you limit the better grasses too much - holism means you look at the sward or the decision as a "whole" and in my case, clovers drive the system, so I manage for maximum legume. And that's what we get.
When you get enough N trickling constantly in, then the soil handles it far better than via a bag, and the sward sorts itself out, the pH eventually manages itself, the compaction goes with time and you have a healthy soil that produces as much or more .
But as always Carbon drives everything, especially the pH, as all those hydrogen ions want something to cling to, so we need life in the soil to polymerise the carbon into a framework - humus
But if you managed a fruit tree the same way, you'd not get any fruit, and if you had to plant new trees every 5 years you'd go broke...
The real key with PRG is totally opposite to most production systems: hooning it along with nitrogen, keep "on top of it" all the time, and never letting it be for a moment too long.
And of course when it goes reproductive, it suppresses other plants, which other grasses don't.
...and it has quite narrow leaves, which is why it likes being bought some energy..
So there are other grasses easily as good if not better depending on management parameters.
PRG has a place but I certainly don't base my own management for it or you limit the better grasses too much - holism means you look at the sward or the decision as a "whole" and in my case, clovers drive the system, so I manage for maximum legume. And that's what we get.
When you get enough N trickling constantly in, then the soil handles it far better than via a bag, and the sward sorts itself out, the pH eventually manages itself, the compaction goes with time and you have a healthy soil that produces as much or more .
But as always Carbon drives everything, especially the pH, as all those hydrogen ions want something to cling to, so we need life in the soil to polymerise the carbon into a framework - humus
- Location
- Northern Ireland
I have to honest about natural swards here.
I took on land three years ago that had been grazed with sheep, with perhaps one cut off it per year, for probably 15-20 years at a guess. I'd guess it got very little fertiliser in that time.
In the first year, it wasn't worth tuppence for yield. Poor wouldn't have been the word. But going into the fourth season, with a new ryegrass ley from last summer, and some dairy slurry taking effect, it's starting to look like it will yield now. There's an awful lot of very poorly productive swards in the locality,and they are mostly natural species, managed extensively.
I took on land three years ago that had been grazed with sheep, with perhaps one cut off it per year, for probably 15-20 years at a guess. I'd guess it got very little fertiliser in that time.
In the first year, it wasn't worth tuppence for yield. Poor wouldn't have been the word. But going into the fourth season, with a new ryegrass ley from last summer, and some dairy slurry taking effect, it's starting to look like it will yield now. There's an awful lot of very poorly productive swards in the locality,and they are mostly natural species, managed extensively.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Just about all of them over here began with the same "bush-burn" mix, probably imported from the old country via my great grandfather's company.
And they respond so completely differently depending on management - I drive a fert truck during the week and the difference between extensive, intensive, management-intensive and continuous grazing is absolutely mind-expanding!
You see some plants that are "fully grown" at 2 inches tall, as you say it's those sheep!!
Destructive buggers if you let them at it for more than 5 days at a time.
- Location
- Northern Ireland
Yip. Have seen that. Headed at a few inches high.
Probably a mix of them all but I suppose mainly the climate, last year was excellent for us but our summers are just too short. A wet summer followed by a wet winter means our soils never get a chance to dry out. We also have an enormous problem with geese here and they do a huge amount of damage to swards.
Stick to milking cows.