Dispatches - Red Tractor

snarling bee

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Bedfordshire
The NFU didn't help at all - they support RT ...... ask them to state otherwise publicly ?

RT pulled back the charges because they could see a sh!t storm brewing on social media, if farmers hadn't represented themselves all that gold plate would be in force today
When you attend NFU meetings then you will be qualified to say what went on.
 

BrianV

Member
Livestock Farmer
It is location, weather and crop that dictates growing seasons, not a calender.
A policy based on reality may not offend.
I don't believe any farmer has ever intentionally polluted a watercourse.
Water companies do on a regular basis.
Wouldn't it be simpler & far more effective if the fines for polluted rivers were far far higher & on top of the fine the guilty party was forced to pay for the restocking of the polluted river, many of us farmers do not have a waterway or river within miles of our farms & fields & yet we are subject to the same regulations as those spreading adjacent to waterways.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
So who do you think kept RT 'in check' with the new V5 standards? It was as much the NFU as the general consultation replies, and the NFU reps fought heard to get the RT boards to see sense.
You're a bit like Channel 4 - you have your own agenda so will ignore the truth for the sake of a good story/comment.
I’m grateful you’ve engaged on here actually. The only NFU member who seems to do that. It mystifies me though why general H and S was brought into the RT arena. Many of us are selling feed grain to feed mills who have very little interest in matters not directly connected with feed safety. I’m surprised the NFU allowed that through amongst other things.
Of course we all have an agenda. Mine is to stay commercially viable while having weekends off if possible. I sometimes wonder what the NFU’s agenda is? Doesn’t seem very clear to me. There seem to have been too many giveaways without much of a fight but I’ll admit I’m not party to what goes on BCD as my shop steward used to say.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
It is location, weather and crop that dictates growing seasons, not a calender.
A policy based on reality may not offend.
I don't believe any farmer has ever intentionally polluted a watercourse.
Water companies do on a regular basis.

Agreed that a calendar is not the best tool to use, but there are plenty who plaster muck & slurry on in the Autumn, way in excess of what the crop will take up.

I'm sure that farmers don't intentionally pollute watercourses, but there are too many that do, whether through ignorance or just not caring. There's a field near here on the banks of the River Severn, right by the road, where there is regularly a nurse tank and umbilical pumping stuff out onto maize stubble in the winter, even when there is water sat on the surface and/or heavy rain and flooding imminent. I cringe every time I see it, not only because of the pollution being caused, but also at the shear waste of valuable nutrients.

Those guys aren't going to stop without legislation, which is why we are currently all facing NVZ regs in Wales. :mad: It's nothing to do with the size of the production units locally, and everything to do with inadequate storage and idiots treating muck purely as something 'to get rid of'.
 

Hfd Cattle

Member
Location
Hereford
Going back to the chicken farms .....did I hear right ...4 weeks to be oven ready ?
Surely that isn't enough time for the 'meat' to develop properly?

....perhaps the 'cheap' chicken could become a vegan diet .....you can hardly call it meat surely .
Apologies if I heard it wrong !
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Going back to the chicken farms .....did I hear right ...4 weeks to be oven ready ?
Surely that isn't enough time for the 'meat' to develop properly?

....perhaps the 'cheap' chicken could become a vegan diet .....you can hardly call it meat surely .
Apologies if I heard it wrong !

I thought it was 5 or 6 weeks. But no, it only has to develop enough to carry a high margin sauce that tastes of something...
 

lloyd

Member
Location
Herefordshire
Going back to the chicken farms .....did I hear right ...4 weeks to be oven ready ?
Surely that isn't enough time for the 'meat' to develop properly?

....perhaps the 'cheap' chicken could become a vegan diet .....you can hardly call it meat surely .
Apologies if I heard it wrong !
Dont they aim for 7.5 crops a year taking cleaning out sheds into consideration.
Chicken did very well off the back of the BSE years.
 

Bald Rick

Moderator
Livestock Farmer
Location
Anglesey
Wouldn't it be simpler & far more effective if the fines for polluted rivers were far far higher & on top of the fine the guilty party was forced to pay for the restocking of the polluted river, many of us farmers do not have a waterway or river within miles of our farms & fields & yet we are subject to the same regulations as those spreading adjacent to waterways.

So where does you rainfall go?

If not to ditch, then to groundwater which can still be contaminated - and for far longer periods.
 

silverfox

Member
Location
Shropshire
That's all covered in the planning applications submitted before they are built. They have to show how they are going to manage the manure produced which, if they don't have enough land of their own, usually involves exporting it. The problem comes when that exporting doesn't happen.
I bet the Wales NVZ has magnified that problem .
 

DaveGrohl

Member
Location
Cumbria
I agree, but we are better than the water companies. And generally plants don't really grow much in the winter.

Actually I think quite a lot of farmers know it's not best practice to spread muck in the autumn but it suits them to do it so they carry on. It's quite a big policy change to implement but quite well illustrated on last night's programme.

What is ‘the growing season’. Here on the West Coast we have little frost and some years every month is in the ‘growing season. Grass is still growing fast here now, although the wind knocked it back a bit, and many thousands of cows and young stock are still out grazing. Half my herd are grazing during the day and they will soon be housed to be replaced by tack sheep until the end of February, by which time they will hopefully have eaten back the grass a bit. Not too much this year though, what with the price of fertiliser.
It's a long time since I went to Uni but we were told back then that grass grows above a certain temp. Grass doesn't care what the bloody calendar says, if it's above x degC it grows. This autumn manure ban is beyond a sick joke. Conversely, I can't ever remember a Apr/May like the one we've just had for grass NOT growing. What about all that manure/fert sitting there doing nothing but get washed away? Where's your calendar now?

Presumably we've got to fit nappies to the overwintering sheep now, or are they being conveniently forgotten because er hmmm that's a tricky one, we're only bureaucrats and can't be expected to come up with an answer beyond "them's the rules........."?
 
Last edited:
Location
Devon
Agreed that a calendar is not the best tool to use, but there are plenty who plaster muck & slurry on in the Autumn, way in excess of what the crop will take up.

I'm sure that farmers don't intentionally pollute watercourses, but there are too many that do, whether through ignorance or just not caring. There's a field near here on the banks of the River Severn, right by the road, where there is regularly a nurse tank and umbilical pumping stuff out onto maize stubble in the winter, even when there is water sat on the surface and/or heavy rain and flooding imminent. I cringe every time I see it, not only because of the pollution being caused, but also at the shear waste of valuable nutrients.

Those guys aren't going to stop without legislation, which is why we are currently all facing NVZ regs in Wales. :mad: It's nothing to do with the size of the production units locally, and everything to do with inadequate storage and idiots treating muck purely as something 'to get rid of'.

An autumn ban will actually make things worse.
The EA have the power and resources to prosecute and fine anyone causing pollution.
There is nothing stopping them from addressing the bad behaviour of the few.
The EA's policy will actually cause more pollution incidents which indicates that its aim is to penalise livestock farming and not protect the environment.
 

snarling bee

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Bedfordshire
I’m grateful you’ve engaged on here actually. The only NFU member who seems to do that. It mystifies me though why general H and S was brought into the RT arena. Many of us are selling feed grain to feed mills who have very little interest in matters not directly connected with feed safety. I’m surprised the NFU allowed that through amongst other things.
Of course we all have an agenda. Mine is to stay commercially viable while having weekends off if possible. I sometimes wonder what the NFU’s agenda is? Doesn’t seem very clear to me. There seem to have been too many giveaways without much of a fight but I’ll admit I’m not party to what goes on BCD as my shop steward used to say.
The reason H&S was left in was to try and reduce the 35-50 people that are victim to fatal accidents on farms every year. That figure does not include those that have life changing injuries or more minor accidents and 'near misses'.
If anybody thinks it wont happen to them - think again. I have lost my father-in-law to an accident with a bull, my daughters boyfriend to a RTA whilst driving a badly maintained grain trailer, a daughter to suicide, and a neighbour is in a wheelchair after falling through a roof.
 
Location
Devon
The reason H&S was left in was to try and reduce the 35-50 people that are victim to fatal accidents on farms every year. That figure does not include those that have life changing injuries or more minor accidents and 'near misses'.
If anybody thinks it wont happen to them - think again. I have lost my father-in-law to an accident with a bull, my daughters boyfriend to a RTA whilst driving a badly maintained grain trailer, a daughter to suicide, and a neighbour is in a wheelchair after falling through a roof.

But H&S is for the safety of workers, not the produce they sell.

I have every sympathy for the accidents that have befallen your family and friends but similar events happen to people all the time but don't get attributed to their occupation.
How many people get injured by their pets, have accidents with caravans/trailers and have incidents while performing DIY.
Suicide is a tragedy that could strike anyone but pressures of being inspected certainly don't help....
 

Humble Village Farmer

Member
BASE UK Member
It's a long time since I went to Uni but we were told back then that grass grows above a certain temp. Grass doesn't care what the bloody calendar says, if it's above x degC it grows. This autumn manure ban is beyond a sick joke. Conversely, I can't ever remember a Apr/May like the one we've just had for grass NOT growing. What about all that manure/fert sitting there doing nothing but get washed away? Where's your calendar now?

Presumably we've got to fit nappies to the overwintering sheep now, or are they being conveniently forgotten because er hmmm that's a tricky one, we're only bureaucrats and can't be expected to come up with an answer beyond " them's the rules........."?
You make some valid points but will you apply bagged nitrogen over the autumn and winter under the same principle?

By the way, shouldn't this be discussed on the autumn muck thread?
 
Yep i totally agree, the problem is further up the line and not the inspector.

Thou of course you get the odd bad inspector who is on a power trip but if that happens just be polite ask them to leave and call their office to explain why and ask to be sent a new inspector.

HFD cattle went off on one at one point because she asked this simple question: Where is your disinfectant? that is just a bog standard question they ask at every inspection!
 

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