Do we need stricter gun laws?

[Vader]

He may be expecting to inherit a family heirloom and not want it damaged by deactivation. That’s pretty much why I got mine.

No.
His family never owned a gun.

 

[Vader]

That's the problem with the present system, you don't have to have a need for, or even a reason, to own a shotgun, it's up to someone to prove why you shouldn't.

For example, everyone in the street where the Plymouth killer lived could say they want to go shooting clays and I doubt if any would be refused a licence.

As an aside, I wonder how easy it is for a Muslim with no police record to get a shotgun certificate?

Agree, that's what I been saying.
Should have to say/show what your going to use it for.
Plus 1 year probation using club guns before can buy 1 yourself.

 

[Lincoln75]

No.
His family never owned a gun.

I'm struggling to believe what you say as you stated he's never used a shotgun " as far as I know," so obviously you don't know him very well or chat to him.

 

[Vader]

to be fair, I totally disagree with you, if someone wants a shotgun, they should not have to prove a reason, wanting is enough reason, the long arm of the state is interfering enough as it is now already.

So for safety reasons alone, you don't think someone should have to be in a club for a year first?
Your happy for anyone with zero gun use to be able to just buy a gun and start popping off at anything and everything with no idea of dangers.

 

[Vader]

I'm struggling to believe what you say as you stated he's never used a shotgun " as far as I know," so obviously you don't know him very well or chat to him.

I don't see him 24hrs a day , but I am 99.9% sure he never has.
Same, as far as I know he has never climbed k2.

I talk to him quite a bit, he has never mentioned going up k2, even though we talked about climbing before as he saw my old gear I was using while climbing a tree.

Same as he asked about recoil on shotgun in past as he heard they have lot of recoil when he has seen me with my gun.

From both chats I pretty sure he nither had a go with a gun or climbed k2.

 

[Pieces_of_Eight]

It should be mandatory for all shooters to be a member of an active firearm club and hold proper insurance as well in my view.

Plus 1 year probation using club guns before can buy 1 yourself.

The police don't have the resources now to efficiently process grants, renewals and variations.

Rifle /pistol target clubs are already highly regulated, extending the same level of licensing to clay shooting grounds would place an enormous amount of admin onto the Home Office/Police.

Approval of rifle and muzzle-loading pistol clubs (accessible)

www.gov.uk

Making shooting less accessible to non-shooters would also have an adverse impact on the long term future of clay shooting as a sport.

 

[Lincoln75]

It should be mandatory for all shooters to be a member of an active firearm club and hold proper insurance as well in my view.

I doubt tens of thousands of farmers , rough shooters , pest controllers and gamekeepers etc would agree they need to be club member.

 

[Pieces_of_Eight]

I doubt tens of thousands of farmers , rough shooters , pest controllers and gamekeepers etc would agree they need to be club member.

Very true.

Insurance is a different matter though, I cannot understand people who shoot (or ride horses) without insurance.

 

[Lincoln75]

Very true.

Insurance is a different matter though, I cannot understand people who shoot (or ride horses) without insurance.

Shooters public liability insurance is less than £20.00 p.a with Gunplan so it would be foolish not to have it.

 

[Vader]

The police don't have the resources now to efficiently process grants, renewals and variations.

Rifle /pistol target clubs are already highly regulated, extending the same level of licensing to clay shooting grounds would place an enormous amount of admin onto the Home Office/Police.

Approval of rifle and muzzle-loading pistol clubs (accessible)

www.gov.uk

Making shooting less accessible to non-shooters would also have an adverse impact on the long term future of clay shooting as a sport.

1 year probation is for new shooters.
All current holders are ok, so won't be a big extra burden.

As future clay shooters would be shooting at a clay ground, not sure how it makes it less accessible...

 

[Highland Mule]

1 year probation is for new shooters.
All current holders are ok, so won't be a big extra burden.

As future clay shooters would be shooting at a clay ground, not sure how it makes it less accessible...

I'm guessing you live closer than 100 miles from your nearest clay shooting club. Not everyone has that amenity on their doorstep. Some people forget quite how remote some parts of the UK actually are.

 

[Lincoln75]

1 year probation is for new shooters.
All current holders are ok, so won't be a big extra burden.

As future clay shooters would be shooting at a clay ground, not sure how it makes it less accessible...

You are not living in the real world , so you think that someone who wants to shoot a few pigeons over stubble or knock a few rabbits/foxes off on ground they own should have to join a clay pigeon club? , , you really havent thought this through , maybe you are a civil servant , the system in place works perfectly well if the current laws and rules are adhered to , unfortunately they weren't in the case of the latest incident , I dont entirely blame the Police though for re issuing to perpetrators license , there are nearly 40 thousand license holders in Devon & Cornwall and only around 10 staff to oversee licensing .

 

[Pieces_of_Eight]

As future clay shooters would be shooting at a clay ground, not sure how it makes it less accessible...

Have a read through the "Criteria for Approval" for Rifle & Pistol clubs on the link above.

If all these conditions were applied to clay grounds, then just turning up with a friend to have a go (or shooting as part of a corporate day) would be tightly restricted, limiting access to newcomers.

I am a regular at 3 clay grounds, as far as I know none of them function as a members' club in any shape or form. In addition I am a member of a roving syndicate, which always has multiple guests on each day. Needing to fill forms in for each guest (like rifle & pistol clubs do) would add a great deal of admin for the local police.

 

[Vader]

You are not living in the real world , so you think that someone who wants to shoot a few pigeons over stubble or knock a few rabbits/foxes off on ground they own should have to join a clay pigeon club? , , you really havent thought this through , maybe you are a civil servant , the system in place works perfectly well if the current laws and rules are adhered to , unfortunately they weren't in the case of the latest incident , I dont entirely blame the Police though for re issuing to perpetrators license , there are nearly 40 thousand license holders in Devon & Cornwall and only around 10 staff to oversee licensing .

If they never used a gun and don't have own land then yes they need somewhere to learn safety.
I had 'new' guns on our shoot who were clueless about safety and etiquette.

 

[Lincoln75]

If they never used a gun and don't have own land then yes they need somewhere to learn safety.
I had 'new' guns on our shoot who were clueless about safety and etiquette.

I wouldn't have a problem with having a compulsory handling course , it could be done in a day , having to join a clay club for a year is stupid.

 

[Vader]

I wouldn't have a problem with having a compulsory handling course , it could be done in a day , having to join a clay club for a year is stupid.

You really think you can learn to shoot safely in a day?
Theory is 1 thing.
Actual shooting is different.

 

[Lincoln75]

You really think you can learn to shoot safely in a day?
Theory is 1 thing.
Actual shooting is different.

The safety basics can be done in a day , I`ve taught it , coaching someone to shoot well with a shotgun is another matter.

 

[Pasty]

I would have thought insurance was essential. Anyone with a farm would be mad not to have liability cover in case some kid decides to fall out of a tree while trespassing. Long time since I had an SGC but I shall be applying again as my father has a rather lovely Browning which he wants me to have and I would certainly become a member of BASC or similar who I think include insurance.

 

[Vader]

The safety basics can be done in a day , I`ve taught it , coaching someone to shoot well with a shotgun is another matter.

What i mean is you can teach someone safety in a class room or even on a stand.
But they need to have a few days shooting to get it.
Stood listening to a coach they take note.
Then with mates can easy forget.
Need to do it a while so it becomes the natural thing to do.
Until then they not safe.

 

[Lincoln75]

What i mean is you can teach someone safety in a class room or even on a stand.
But they need to have a few days shooting to get it.
Stood listening to a coach they take note.
Then with mates can easy forget.
Need to do it a while so it becomes the natural thing to do.
Until then they not safe.

Disagree , intense classroom tuition isn't needed , just a lecture board and some sharpies to explain whats happening , 1.5 hours discussion at the firing point , then some practical , a bit more discussion then some more practical and a simple test at the end , the risk of failing the test makes people pay attention, especially if you are charging them £200.00 ea per day tuition.

Experience often breeds complacency in the hunting world , some of the most dangerous practices can be seen on pheasant shoots and by deer stalkers with many years behind them , they nearly all know the theory but many dont practice it.

It`s very rare people are injured accidently by firearms in the UK which shows generally most shooters are safe , legislation will not stop lunatics killing people , if they dont have a gun then they`ll find another way.