So your going to close all the clay shoots , all the pheasant and grouse shoots
No more deer stalking?
Let's hope nobody gets their brains bashed in with a golf club or that will have to be stopped as well
Do we need stricter gun laws?
- Thread starter Stuart J
- Start date
No more deer stalking?
Let's hope nobody gets their brains bashed in with a golf club or that will have to be stopped as well
toquark
Member
Golf, cookery, javelin, shotput, boxing, rugby, martial arts. Just a few sports and hobbies which are either themselves dangerouse, involve dangerous tools or train people to potentially become very dangerous.
Would you ban them too?
ollie989898
Member
I do think shotguns, air rifles, cross bows and the like should all be classed as firearms and legislated accordingly. I don't see any difference between a shotgun or a rifle in terms of the risk they pose to society, be it magazine fed semi-automatics or a single barrel break-action shotgun you need to reload after each shot. The regulatory and oversight process should be more carefully applied if we are to stop things like the Plymouth incident from happening.
I do not believe it is 'easy' to obtain the necessary certificate to own a weapon. Having been through the process myself in the now very-distant past the process at the time seemed rigorous enough to me though it may well have changed in more recent times.
I do see a need for people to own firearms legitimately in the UK and I don't believe a blanket ban is necessary or preferable.
I do not believe it is 'easy' to obtain the necessary certificate to own a weapon. Having been through the process myself in the now very-distant past the process at the time seemed rigorous enough to me though it may well have changed in more recent times.
I do see a need for people to own firearms legitimately in the UK and I don't believe a blanket ban is necessary or preferable.
The Seeker
Member
you couldn't walk into a school armed with Golf club , cookery pan , javelin, shotput, boxing, rugby, martial arts and take out 10 people, but you could with a shotgun you cold do it without a second thought, im sorry but im a country boy at heart i have land i could shoot on but i simply dont see the need to do so, i have learnt that gun owners are very protective of there "right" to own a gun, where was my right to say you shouldn't own a gun ? was it pier review by a large swath of community ? no just a few forms and a couple of signatures and bingo you own potentially a lethal weapon and yes we all know knives cars and even javilns - if you believe some oddballs can be lethal but non more so than a shotgun, you dont even need to be a good shot. Sorry but that's my view. Im not arguing its just my view.
- Location
- Dumfries & Galloway
I do tend to agree with you on this.
Without looking up, I believe every instance of a shooting in the UK, since Dunblane, has been by someone with an SGC - not FAC. Despite rifles being much more a devastating weapon, the tighter control appears to work very well. It maybe is time for shotguns to be treated like firearms.
Air rifles are licensed this side of the border which has sadly seen a few junior clubs close, but I think in the long run it was something which should have happened years ago - UK wide (we don't get the regular stories in the local paper of pets or livestock being shot by air rifle any more)
toquark
Member
You could very well walk into a school with a knife and do some very serious damage very quickly, you could also drive a vehicle into a crowd causing catastrophic damage. Both these have happened in the very recent past and on numerous occasions in the UK and in Europe.
Nobody has a “right” to own a gun in the UK, and equally you don’t have a “right” to dictate what people can or can’t own.
That’s not the kind of country we live in.
The Seeker
Member
just my view bud
toquark
Member
Iirc, the Cumbrian shootings were with a .22.
For what it’s worth I think the licensing system, whilst at the right scrutiny “level” is very old fashioned. I’d be comfortable with one license, where individual calibres or gun types are granted by the FEO. I also can’t understand why in this day and age, everything’s still done on paper. Buy a gun, write it down, buy bullets, write it down. Ive always thought a card showing a photo and a QR code which, when scanned gives the firearms dealer or police officer access to database information, guns held, ammo bought, calibres permitted etc.
- Location
- Dumfries & Galloway
I thought Whitehaven was a shotgun?
Although since posting I think Northumberland (Raul Moat) may had used a rifle?
I think it's on paper because you can sell privately, on paper, without needing access to database/cards etc etc. Some shotguns change hands surprisingly often (another thing which may need looked at, IMO)
Danllan
Member
- Location
- Sir Gar / Carms
As must have already been posted, there are sufficient laws already on the books. What there isn't as much of as there should be, is the application of them by officers who don't just know the law, but actually understand it - sadly the two are not always mutually inclusive.
That written, the problem isn't restricted merely to firearms teams in any given constabulary; I have come across any number of officers who could quote a given piece of legislation verbatim, but - for instance - were ignorant as to the meaning of key words within it, e.g. 'subject'...
The Seeker
Member
Brother in law is a copper, he has zero interest in being a policeman and lives to be off duty , has 2 years till retirement - he should be top brass by now but he has grown to hate the job stating he’s not a policeman but a careworker in a policeman’s costume.. he says 90% of his friends think the same, at present in my mind the police are just something to believe in but they really don’t exist , except if you are driving at 32 in a 30 zone then expect the long arm of the law to prosecute you to death 
That is another imposition on GPs which many of them resent, especially as so many of them only work part time and scarcely know the patients who are registered with them. In many respects their knowledge of patients is no better than that possessed by members of the police concerning local matters.. There is a total disconnect when it comes to information sharing and monitoring in both the police and NHS.
toquark
Member
And you’re entitled to it
Pieces_of_Eight
Member
As I understand it, each force allocates its own resources to firearms licensing in their own way, some better than others. Each force maintains its own records for its own residents in terms of applications, variations, renewals etc, none of this is national.
I've moved addresses into a different force jurisdiction 4 times, each one was a hassle in terms of paperwork, a bit like waiting for your new GP to get your medical records from your old GP.
It doesn't help that each force interprets HO guidance differently in terms of adequate security arrangements, justifying new calibres, GP reports, treatment of moderators, rifle calibres for non-deer species etc etc.
The cost of establishing a national system, or national department, would be astronomical.
I am sure you are correct. Another problem is that in these days of blame and litigation everybody is seeking, not only backup, but the ability to pass the buck. (ie. from police to doctors/DVLA to doctors etc.)
Lazy Sod
Member
- Location
- Warminster Wiltshire
Are referees ever contacted by the police?
Not sure about now but when I used to get a local JP to do mine she said they would check if there was a reason she had not signed an application that she had in previous years. Basically had she refused to sign for a reason
- Location
- Dumfries & Galloway
Yes.
betweenthelines
Member
- Location
- southwest
But the whole thing re shotguns is all a bit "airy fairy" isn't it?
For example, if I wanted a shotgun cert, I could say to a local farmer "Can I shoot a few rabbits in your top fields? I've got a cert." He can't/isn't likely to check so I'm part way there. Next step is to get a couple of my less disreputable (police might contact them) mates to give me a character reference. Last step is to get my GP (who has only even seen me to give me the "jab") to say I'm not a raving headcase.
Job done-permission to shoot over land, GP and friends references all OK, no reason for police to refuse my application. So before you know it I, who has never fired a twelve bore, can legally buy a tool designed to kill and go and decimate the local wildlife-and anyone I take a dislike to.
For example, if I wanted a shotgun cert, I could say to a local farmer "Can I shoot a few rabbits in your top fields? I've got a cert." He can't/isn't likely to check so I'm part way there. Next step is to get a couple of my less disreputable (police might contact them) mates to give me a character reference. Last step is to get my GP (who has only even seen me to give me the "jab") to say I'm not a raving headcase.
Job done-permission to shoot over land, GP and friends references all OK, no reason for police to refuse my application. So before you know it I, who has never fired a twelve bore, can legally buy a tool designed to kill and go and decimate the local wildlife-and anyone I take a dislike to.
Pieces_of_Eight
Member
Referees are certainly checked out.
I've had two memorable referees, having had a SGC since '97 and an FAC since 2003.
I had a delay on a renewal because the FLO said "a bit of something has come back on one of your referees", who was a solicitor with an interesting sideline (which I now know about but didn't at the time). It all went through ok eventually.
The other was a chap who just looked at the big referees form, signed the bottom, left the rest blank and sent it off. This was all ok and 2 days later i had my renewed FAC in the post (because he was High Sheriff at the time).