Does Direct Drilling actually save money

[jonnyjon]

Focussing on glyphosate is just as much a distraction as "which drill is best?"
Classic reductionist thinking, looking at single issues rather than the whole

Yes, glyphosate IS a valuable tool that I rely on. I do have issues with its use, but nowhere near as much as I have with tillage

I stated earlier that I didn't believe zero till ( I REALLY don't like the term DD, from what I've seen here many seem to think that is just about not using a plough, but still using lots of HP & diesel & removing all straw ) is the ultimate farming system, but an important stepping stone to a more regenerative system. Part of that will be finding alternatives to glyphosate & most if not all herbicides. By focussing on glyphosate, you are making it ALL about glyphosate . . .
Plenty of work being done in the USA & Brazil with "organic" zero till, using green covers & crimper rollers
Here in Australia in certain areas that are climatically suited, "pasture Cropping" as pioneered by Col Seis & Darrel Cluff has a lot of potential, integrating livestock & cropping with no synthetic inputs

its the "concept" that is important, staying flexible & adaptable, rather than following a fixed set of rules & never deviating from that . . .

Not wanting to use roundup has nothing to do with reductionist thinking, I don't want to use it because I no it is a toxic chemical , end of

 

[Brisel]

Everything is toxic with the wrong dose. Life is about compromise & doing the best we can with what we have. I see spraying off small soft grass weeds with glyphosate that wouldn't be killed by a crimper roller as a better option than lots of expensive tillage to achieve the same effect. Note the timing of the glyphosate - not pre harvest but pre sowing, where the soil biology has plenty of time to break it down.

Since we've touched on crop destruction, how do you control ryegrass @Farmer Roy ? A crimper roller won't do it.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Not wanting to use roundup has nothing to do with reductionist thinking, I don't want to use it because I no it is a toxic chemical , end of

Its a pesticide - it kills things!!! Am I a fan of pre-harvest roundup? Not really even thought doses are really low I think we should be doing better than that but I am a fan of pre no till drilling roundup - the best thing to happen from this farm. No soil erosion

But fear of chemicals in our food is emotionally driven more than is necessary. If you are worried about your gut then try plant based foods, live yoghurt, less processed food etc.

 

[Richard III]

To any of you that don't have their basis, do you think there is a place for specialists DD agronomists? As I am one of very few dd ing in my area I find that agronomists are not very clued up on the system ,especially the nutritional side. Is this the same all over or do you bigger growers all have your basis?

@Audlem Agron helps quite a few with DD around here and he is definitely clued up on the system.

 

[jonnyjon]

Note to self, don't ask a simple genuine question on this forum lest you get sucked into a stupid tit for tat argument

 

[Brisel]

Note to self, don't ask a simple genuine question on this forum lest you get sucked into a stupid tit for tat argument

What was the simple genuine question?

Please don't get upset if the answers aren't what you want or expect - a couple of lines of text in a post can be easily misinterpreted. TFF is like a pub without the alcohol (!) or face to face contact that would add context to the discussion. Going off topic happens often - this started as the OP asking if DD saved any money...

 

[Bury the Trash]

What was the simple genuine question?

Please don't get upset if the answers aren't what you want or expect - a couple of lines of text in a post can be easily misinterpreted. TFF is like a pub without the alcohol (!) or face to face contact that would add context to the discussion. Going off topic happens often - this started as the OP asking if DD saved any money...

how do you know ?...might be with alcohol ..bit early tho I guess

 

[Clive]

To any of you that don't have their basis, do you think there is a place for specialists DD agronomists? As I am one of very few dd ing in my area I find that agronomists are not very clued up on the system ,especially the nutritional side. Is this the same all over or do you bigger growers all have your basis?

I don't think an agronomist is the best person to design a farming system - what you need is someone who has already done it themselves in the real and practical world, then you need an agronomist to work with the changes your making that understands the agronomic differences. What's needed is a team of agronomist who understands conservation ag and people with experience of the practical logistical and financial side of it all

I don't know of anyone offering this kind of service right now, plenty of consultants that talk a good farms or know how to do it in theory but very few (if any) that have actually been there and don it with their OWN money, farm and income at stake

 

[Brisel]

Richard Harding at Procam South East is very good at CA
Tom Heathcote at Knight Frank in Melton Mowbray (formerly Fisher German) is very knowledgeable about CA consultancy at a whole farm level.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Note to self, don't ask a simple genuine question on this forum lest you get sucked into a stupid tit for tat argument

You said we are killing ourselves with chemicals and I'm saying that's both a hysterical point of view and an inaccurate one as well. Chemicals aren't killing us - obesity might be, alcoholism might be. Chemicals and glyphosate is way way down the list

 

[Clive]

Richard Harding at Procam South East is very good at CA
Tom Heathcote at Knight Frank in Melton Mowbray (formerly Fisher German) is very knowledgeable about CA consultancy at a whole farm level.

Don't know Tom but agree 110% re Richard Harding - he is a co-editor of Direct Driller magazine

 

[tr250]

@Fred are you going to the nene catchment no-till event tomorrow morning.

 

[jonnyjon]

You said we are killing ourselves with chemicals and I'm saying that's both a hysterical point of view and an inaccurate one as well. Chemicals aren't killing us - obesity might be, alcoholism might be. Chemicals and glyphosate is way way down the list

You are entitled to your opinion as am i, the only difference is mine is based on my experience, what's yours based on? Chemical industry's lies? Or do you just no stuff? My original question was how do I farm no till without roundup, I didn't ask for a debate on the safety of chemicals

 

[Badshot]

You are entitled to your opinion as am i, the only difference is mine is based on my experience, what's yours based on? Chemical industry's lies? Or do you just no stuff? My original question was how do I farm no till without roundup, I didn't ask for a debate on the safety of chemicals

To no till without roundup means reliance on incrop chemistry, which could be argued will be used anyway. A whole new approach with rotation being key, possibly grazing ahead of drilling? Dunno, but there will be a way ahead.
Liquid n scorches top growth off pretty well, maybe that will become useful in future.

 

[SilliamWhale]

You are entitled to your opinion as am i, the only difference is mine is based on my experience, what's yours based on? Chemical industry's lies? Or do you just no stuff? My original question was how do I farm no till without roundup, I didn't ask for a debate on the safety of chemicals

Mine is based on science. Yours isnt, its conjecture about roundup and the gut and chemicals.killing people.

What is this big chemical industry conspiracy?

 

[Fred]

@Fred are you going to the nene catchment no-till event tomorrow morning.

No I cant make it , however I really recommend going as I hear the main speaker is particulary very good and has good knowledge of setting up a Conservation AG system on heavy land farm .

 

[Fred]

Guys we are way off subject as much as I love good rant lets start another thread , moderators please

 

[jonnyjon]

Mine is based on science. Yours isnt, its conjecture about roundup and the gut and chemicals.killing people.

What is this big chemical industry conspiracy?

Would that be the same science that claimed all the sh1te that has already been withdrawn was safe? Delusion is just sad

 

[Clive]

Guys we are way off subject as much as I love good rant lets start another thread , moderators please

yes - please start another thread to discuss the rights / wrongs of glyphosate etc and keep this one on topic

 

[SilliamWhale]

Would that be the same science that claimed all the sh1te that has already been withdrawn was safe? Delusion is just sad

Like what? DDT again?

Everything is toxic, everything has risks.