Does pv still stack up ?

[Clive]

Excuse my complete ignorance in this subject please !

I believe the feed in tariffs are no more ? Or reduced ?

In light of that is there still a sound economic case to cover a shed roof in panels ? I have large modern roofs facing south so it seems like a good idea but what kind of payback period can I expect ?

 

[you've been farmed]

Fit looks like it still exists but is dropping away.

 

[Honest john]

If I extend my 50kWh to 100kWh I will get FIT at 11p Export at 4.5p On an investment of 55K payback approx 6 years. It will require some mantainance costs and inverter replacements over time on a depreiating asset.

If you use most of the power on site and on a new site with FIT at 13p I think its still a runner.

 

[JACK F]

Hope it still stacks up as we start installing two 50KW systems in a fortnight. Fit rate is 13.03p at moment and is due to be reviewed 30th April. Save over 10p on what we use ourselves and dont have to buy and get paid 4.5p for what we export.
Think probably about as economic now as it ever was as price of systems has come down considerably over the years which should compensate for the Fit rate being lower now than it was.
Figures companies quoted me was around 17.5% return on investment.
Think it will be lower than this with inverter replacments and think that we will not use as much energy on site as they are proposing.
The more electricity you use the better the returns are but not much used early mornings/late evenings and weekends on the industrial units.

 

[Honest john]

Hope it still stacks up as we start installing two 50KW systems in a fortnight. Fit rate is 13.03p at moment and is due to be reviewed 30th April. Save over 10p on what we use ourselves and dont have to buy and get paid 4.5p for what we export.
Think probably about as economic now as it ever was as price of systems has come down considerably over the years which should compensate for the Fit rate being lower now than it was.
Figures companies quoted me was around 17.5% return on investment.
Think it will be lower than this with inverter replacments and think that we will not use as much energy on site as they are proposing.
The more electricity you use the better the returns are but not much used early mornings/late evenings and weekends on the industrial units.

Yes they do Quote high returns I have one here at 18.59% 50% used on site 12p/kWh brought in power. FIT at 13.03 Export at 4.5p.
Thats just way over. As we would only get 11.5p FIT we buy power for less than 12p and no maintaince costs or inverter replacements included in the costing. I think 10% would be closer.
My 2nd Quote Shows a 15% return, but most power used on site no matainance included.
So I still see 10% poss 12% more likely
Would a buy to let morgage on a new flat not be a better place to park 55K ??

 

[JACK F]

10% was where I got to in the worst case scenario.

Replace all inverters twice over 20 years and they dont improve technology and come down in price over time. (Hopefully once and be cheaper).

Electricity does not become relatively more expensive to buy in. (Unlikely).

We use 40% on site. ( We use double on site compared to what we will produce over the year but not evenly. Most the day the panels wont produce enough so will be using 100% but early morning, late evening weekends I think we will export alot. Summer time grain store fans will be running so more used at these times then. Therefore 40% is very conservative)

Thinking that looking at the monitors is going to become very addictive over the coming months watching what we are producing/exporting. (have not factored my time wastage in !!!)

 

[Honest john]

Dear Jack.
Of course the big unknown is the cost of power going forward. Lets say it will be 30p in 10 years time. FIT will also be much higher, by inflation. It could show a big return.
My issue is we use 6 X the power produced by our 50kWh but not so much at the sunny long day time of the year.May / June / July. We use a lot of power at night and in the winter months ie today.

We need rechargeable batterys then it would be good.

 

[mikelaluz]

Hi Clive

I think most points have been covered and for the sake of transparency I work in the industry.

Firstly be aware that there is a potential tariff reduction 1st May and this will be announced in the next few days. My belief however is that with the figures produced last week for installed capacity in November December and January which were well below the trigger points for an increase there will be no reduction. But this does mean that there will be an automatic reduction of 3.5% in August irrespective of installed capacity.

A couple of points that may not have been covered. Not all panels are equal and many perform much better in low light conditions (basically sums up UK irradiation) than others.. This is easily checked by your installer / system designer who should be able to run panel / inverter combinations through PV software such as PVSol which will link local average irradiation levels in your area. The difference can be up to 3,000KWh per year which is 60,000KWh's over the 20 years.

And also make sure if you're in poultry or dairy that your panels are ammonia certified.

You are all aware that the price of everything PV has dropped and if you have a straightforward modern shed the cost of installation should reflect that

Regards

Mike

 

[Jerry]

We are just in the process of putting in a small 10kw system on a roof, all in price is just over £16k with a payback of about 6.5 years going with conservative figures.

Will use most of the power ourselves and we might look at extending the system to a larger field based site in the near furure depending ona few other factors.

 

[mikelaluz]

Hi Jerry You're in a great position as you will also get 50% of generation through the export tariff at 4.5p - That is of course until they turn up with your Smart Meter, but that could be quite a few years yet so enjoy for now.

 

[penntor]

Hi Jerry You're in a great position as you will also get 50% of generation through the export tariff at 4.5p - That is of course until they turn up with your Smart Meter, but that could be quite a few years yet so enjoy for now.

Will a Smart meter be able to tell how much is being exported. Having a Smart meter fitted next month by EDF as part of a trial. I have mentioned to them about my PV buit they should know anyway as they pay me for what I generate.

penntor

 

[mikelaluz]

Hi Penntor
Sorry my post was a bit misleading the smart meters will not measure exported generation you actually need a half hour export meter - The cost of which is prohibitive to domestic installations but the energy companies were talking about rolling out export meters for 10 - 30KWp systems but there have been no timescales set for this so anyone generating and using a high percentage of that generation is going to benefit from the 'deemed' 50% export.

 

[warksfarmer]

No. We get 34.5p FIT and a payback of 6.5 years using 50% on site ourselves. I priced up a smaller 50kw system not long ago and the payback was more than double the period if the system cost the same. We opted for a higher priced system with lots of recommendations from germany where they had been used for years because I wanted to know it would last. The same system today is only 20% cheaper than what we paid which means a 15 yr payback with a FIT of 11.5p which is what it was when I priced it up.
My initial workings out were based on a 8.3p/kw price for bought in elec which is what we were paying in June 2011 when we installed the system. In March 12 however on our contract renewal the best 3 yr fixed deal I could find was 11.3p/kw which reduced our payback period down to 6.5 years.

If you could find a good 'reliable' system for about £1200/kw then it probably would work and protect you from high elec prices for the next 20 years.

 

[JACK F]

Wow did not realise the FIT was quite so high previously. Definitely a bit slow off the mark. Going to cost me £990/KW. Still think it will be well worth the effort but shame did not get off my backside and do it a couple of years ago. Still cant do everything at once I suppose.
Probably worth noting that anyone seriously thinking about it should make their mind up asap as give it another couple of years it will probably be even less viable.
As I see it the returns, although not fantastic as they were, are still pretty good.

 

[mikelaluz]

Excuse my complete ignorance in this subject please !

I believe the feed in tariffs are no more ? Or reduced ?

In light of that is there still a sound economic case to cover a shed roof in panels ? I have large modern roofs facing south so it seems like a good idea but what kind of payback period can I expect ?

Hi Clive I would be happy to give you a breakdown of costs and potential returns - Just let me know

 

[warksfarmer]

I spoke to about 20 suppliers to begin with, then wangled it down to 6 to visit us and from that we made a decision. When your spending that kind of money and want it working for 20 years you don't go to 'Barnet Ladies' when you need 'Manchester United' men's first team do you!

For every genuine suppliers, there's 9 others that have jumped on the band wagon. Unless you can get a list of recommendations with some of them with 15 yr old systems, leave well alone.

 

[Mr Renewables]

The NFU says ' solar power is still an excellent investment ' see the article at www.edge-er.co.uk/feed-in-tariffs/1345/

 

[warksfarmer]

The NFU says ' solar power is still an excellent investment ' see the article at www.edge-er.co.uk/feed-in-tariffs/1345/

In that case everybody must do it because the N F U are ALWAYS right arnt they!!!!!

 

[Store Man]

I should declare an interest here as we manufacture store control equipment, but what about looking at energy saving options as well as energy generation?

Automating the crop drying and cooling process has a typical payback of less than 2 years, and it is possible to have control programmes that take advantage of cheap electricity (including own generated) that would improve the payback on a solar pv investment.

The improvement in solar payback is greatest when drying is required, which is normally most efficient during the day, cooling crops is usually most effective at night when power would need to be purchased. Depending on the power price difference a slight reduction in cooling speed could lead to some decent savings.

 

[warksfarmer]

I should declare an interest here as we manufacture store control equipment, but what about looking at energy saving options as well as energy generation?

Automating the crop drying and cooling process has a typical payback of less than 2 years, and it is possible to have control programmes that take advantage of cheap electricity (including own generated) that would improve the payback on a solar pv investment.

The improvement in solar payback is greatest when drying is required, which is normally most efficient during the day, cooling crops is usually most effective at night when power would need to be purchased. Depending on the power price difference a slight reduction in cooling speed could lead to some decent savings.

The best thing we could do here is be able to store the elec generated by the panels so we can draw off it when the sun is not shining. However batteries (like marine type ones) may or may not work.