Does pv still stack up ?

[Store Man]

Storing power would be a great benefit. A 1,000T grain store using low pressure ventilation would typically have around 8kW of fan power available, so for a 10 hr overnight run the store would use 80kWh. This equates to around 80 car batteries at 100% efficiencies for charging/inverting etc. which has made it impractical, but I am sure the technology is moving on as storing power is surely the holy grail of renewable power generation!

The only other problem would be what to do with the power if the night was hot and the fans didn’t run. Full batteries in the morning mean nowhere for the newly created power to go, other than back to the grid.

 

[warksfarmer]

The only other problem would be what to do with the power if the night was hot and the fans didn’t run. Full batteries in the morning mean nowhere for the newly created power to go, other than back to the grid.

Would that matter though as its earning money - although a small amount compared to what the system was installed for.

I was thinking more along the lines of being able to store 3-4 months worth though.

 

[SilliamWhale]

The best thing we could do here is be able to store the elec generated by the panels so we can draw off it when the sun is not shining. However batteries (like marine type ones) may or may not work.

This sums up why currently all these wind turbines and solar panels are a bit silly.

 

[warksfarmer]

This sums up why currently all these wind turbines and solar panels are a bit silly.

Possibly but our panels after year 6 will be adding over £30k back into our business every year hopefully for at least 15 years. The way I look at that is its somebodies wages being earn't off the top of a roof which otherwise would be doing nothing. Solar panels were a no brainer when the FIT's were higher.

 

[Clive]

Store man is making a really good point here - loads of farmers happy to invest in PV as they get a nice cheque every year

however a system that saves energy offering a ROI far greater than PV doent seem to get farmers quite so excited

saving is obviously not a sexy and exciting as getting paid even if it's significantly more profitable ??????????????? says a lot about farmers mindset I reckon ?

 

[warksfarmer]

saving is obviously not a sexy and exciting as getting paid even if it's significantly more profitable ??????????????? says a lot about farmers mindset I reckon ?

Yes at the moment ...... but when technology allows us to store the generated power then the people with solar will win further. Our system for example only provides us with 75% of site usage because the remaining 25% is required at night. So if we could store it then we would be even better off, but yes getting paid to instal something that is also going to save you money is not bad really !

Not to dissimilar to SFP.

 

[Clive]

Yes at the moment ...... but when technology allows us to store the generated power then the people with solar will win further. Our system for example only provides us with 75% of site usage because the remaining 25% is required at night. So if we could store it then we would be even better off, but yes getting paid to instal something that is also going to save you money is not bad really !

Not to dissimilar to SFP.

I'm not talking about storing power ? i'm talking about ROI of systems that make power vs systems that reduce power use which I think is @Storeman point that has been missed ??

lets say you have 10k to spend and 10k of PV system will make you 1.5k (15% pa ) - plenty will see that as a great investment and get their cheque books out

now lets ay you could spend that same 10k on a store control system that saves 2k pa of power (20%pa) - a lot fewer farmers seem to get their cheque book out

my point being the ROI is better from saving electricity than it is making it yet its not so "trendy"


(ignore my numbers please they are purely to illustrate the point and based on not real numbers !)

 

[warksfarmer]

I'm not talking about storing power ? i'm talking about ROI of systems that make power vs systems that reduce power use which I think is @Storeman point that has been missed ??

lets say you have 10k to spend and 10k of PV system will make you 1.5k (15% pa ) - plenty will see that as a great investment and get their cheque books out

now lets ay you could spend that same 10k on a store control system that saves 2k pa of power (20%pa) - a lot fewer farmers seem to get their cheque book out

my point being the ROI is better from saving electricity than it is making it yet its not so "trendy"


(ignore my numbers please they are purely to illustrate the point and based on not real numbers !)

I get what you mean but by installing solar you are saving £'s in elec costs, so whilst your not saving power which in turn saves £'s, you are actually saving £'s which is what were all interested in rather than saving power because its good for the planet.

 

[chickens and wheat]

I fitted led lights to my poultry sheds before fitting solar panels, led returns are greater than solar, also it replaced the ageing unreliable flourescent lights.
led stacks up well in poultry sheds as the lights are on atleast 18 hours a day. also flourescent lights are less efficient when dimmed. leds can be more efficient when dimmed.

 

[greengreen1234]

Where i work we have just built the UKs largest solar park. It is 34 MWp. funded by investors, it has cost £35 million. Consisting of some 130,000 solar panels positioned on land between the old runways, and covering an area of c.150 acres, the project was built in less than 8 weeks and was connected and commissioned before changes in ROCs took place at the end of March 2013.

 

[Store Man]

I fitted led lights to my poultry sheds before fitting solar panels, led returns are greater than solar, also it replaced the ageing unreliable flourescent lights.

Perfect example treblesykes. If you ask the people who sell energy making or energy saving products to give you the ROI figures, sort them by your preferred measure (ROI%, payback speed, investment amount, NPV) and the no brainers should bubble to the top.

There are other factors influence the buying decision and making power has a great feel to it, but having the financials close to hand of other products may avoid missing some low hanging fruit at the same time.

led stacks up well in poultry sheds as the lights are on atleast 18 hours a day. also flourescent lights are less efficient when dimmed. leds can be more efficient when dimmed

Definitely anything that is running for long periods of time (cooling fans accidentally left is one, but I am sure there are loads of others) are the real hidden guzzlers of power and might make good candidates for money saving attention.

 

[chickens and wheat]

on the subject of fit payments vs energy use savings.
I've not had my first fit payment yet on my new panels, does my supplier pay me or simply credit my account?
If its a credit then its the same as an energy saving, apart from I get to watch the meter clicking up everyday, (a sadly addictive thing meter watching,especially when it updates to a web site so I can monitor hourly production and compare to other pv sites)

 

[Sid]

I get what you mean but by installing solar you are saving £'s in elec costs, so whilst your not saving power which in turn saves £'s, you are actually saving £'s which is what were all interested in rather than saving power because its good for the planet.

Thats like saying i'm not interested in a more fuel efficent car cause I got a cheap/free source of fuel. Does that mean if you get fee wood to heat your house you leave the windows and doors open cause its free? Same with recycling to save the planet, we need to reduce usage not just recycle!

 

[IANTO]

The best thing we could do here is be able to store the elec generated by the panels so we can draw off it when the sun is not shining. However batteries (like marine type ones) may or may not work.

Storing Electricity, is something I have often wondered about, but have not explored in detail.

I have the option of Hydro, Wind Turbine or Solar.

My preferred option is Hydro, and it has been suggested that due to the lie of the land, it would in the long term make sense to install a closed Hydro System, by creating a Spring Fed Reservoir at the highest point, which would be piped to Turbines several hundred feet lower, with another holding reservoir beyond.

It has been suggested, that it would be profitable to export electricity when demand is high, and use "Off-Peak" for pump storage from the lower reservoir, to the upper reservoir.

Apparently many Large Scale Pump Storage Hydro Electric Schemes work on this principle. The one quoted in this area is Dinorwic in North Wales.

I am still waiting for costings and projections.

 

[penntor]

on the subject of fit payments vs energy use savings.
I've not had my first fit payment yet on my new panels, does my supplier pay me or simply credit my account?
If its a credit then its the same as an energy saving, apart from I get to watch the meter clicking up everyday, (a sadly addictive thing meter watching,especially when it updates to a web site so I can monitor hourly production and compare to other pv sites)

My FIT is paid direct to me and is separate to my electricty bill even though it is EDF in both cases.

penntor

 

[Will Blackburn]

Storing Electricity, is something I have often wondered about, but have not explored in detail.

I have the option of Hydro, Wind Turbine or Solar.

My preferred option is Hydro, and it has been suggested that due to the lie of the land, it would in the long term make sense to install a closed Hydro System, by creating a Spring Fed Reservoir at the highest point, which would be piped to Turbines several hundred feet lower, with another holding reservoir beyond.

It has been suggested, that it would be profitable to export electricity when demand is high, and use "Off-Peak" for pump storage from the lower reservoir, to the upper reservoir.

Apparently many Large Scale Pump Storage Hydro Electric Schemes work on this principle. The one quoted in this area is Dinorwic in North Wales.

I am still waiting for costings and projections.

If you have a reservoir at the top then surely you can control a sluice gate to turn on the electric when you need it?

 

[Penmoel]

If you have a reservoir at the top then surely you can control a sluice gate to turn on the electric when you need it?

That sounds like Dinorwic.

Electric mountain, well worth a visit

http://www.fhc.co.uk/electric_mountain.htm

 

[Lincsman]

That sounds like Dinorwic.

Electric mountain, well worth a visit

http://www.fhc.co.uk/electric_mountain.htm

We had a tour around it, about 3 people work there!, it is one of the few power stations that uses more electric than it makes but paid for itself in a very short time.

 

[WalkingScarecrow]

Where i work we have just built the UKs largest solar park. It is 34 MWp. funded by investors, it has cost £35 million. Consisting of some 130,000 solar panels positioned on land between the old runways, and covering an area of c.150 acres, the project was built in less than 8 weeks and was connected and commissioned before changes in ROCs took place at the end of March 2013.

And very impressive it looks as well.....sure the coach drivers wanted to floor it on the CLA tour yesterday!

 

[greengreen1234]

It does look amazing! It's a shame you went at warp speed. I hope you enjoyed the day though!