Dog Signs

[GmB]

I hope I never have to pull the trigger on anyone’s dog, but just in case, I had a good chat with the firearms chap when I was renewing my FAC about attacks on my sheep and he added to my ticket that I could use my rifle for vermin control and ‘duties as a farmer’ which allows me to shot any of my own stock if needed and it would cover me legally if I ever had to shoot a dog, as dogs are not vermin. The last thing you need is to be technically in the wrong with a firearm issue.

 

[steveR]

I hope I never have to pull the trigger on anyone’s dog, but just in case, I had a good chat with the firearms chap when I was renewing my FAC about attacks on my sheep and he added to my ticket that I could use my rifle for vermin control and ‘duties as a farmer’ which allows me to shot any of my own stock if needed and it would cover me legally if I ever had to shoot a dog, as dogs are not vermin. The last thing you need is to be technically in the wrong with a firearm issue.

Interesting... I will ask my FO the question...

A rifle seems much more appropriate than a shotgun in some cases. Range for starters...

 

[JohnGalway]

Using firearms when the owners are in the immediate area would give me major concerns and wouldn't attempt it without someone recording the whole thing.

I had an issue with another farmer chasing my fathers sheep off the hill before. Asked the local Garda how I'd fare out if I shot his dog when he was chasing our sheep. Grand he said, except he could claim I shot at him and hit the dog instead.

 

[milkloss]

Interesting... I will ask my FO the question...

A rifle seems much more approptiate than a shotgun in some cases. Range for starters...

I asked my FO at renewal and he scribbled '.....dog for the protection of livestock'. It obviously got refused!

A chat with the police came to the conclusion that, although a rifle isn't really ideal in the situation, they wouldn't see a problem provided it was used sensibly (no camping out with a range finder and .308 at 400 yards).

 

[betweenthelines]

Keep your dog on a lead or I will shoot it. I love dogs and that seem reasonable to me.

You only have the right to shoot a dog if it is attacking your stock, not if you think it may have done or may do so.

 

[Highland Mule]

You only have the right to shoot a dog if it is attacking your stock, not if you think it may have done or may do so.

Worrying, not attacking. And that is defined in Scottish government documents as I stated above.

 

[som farmer]

years ago, i cured a randy old dog, coming from the village, 3/4 mile, when our bitch was in heat, used to do some muzzle loading, black powder shooting, light charge and rock salt, in the 7/8 years he lived after that, he never came this way again. Alas, the gun is no more.

 

[Dry Rot]

I've just deleted a long post as I don't think it is necessary. I've kept a lot of dogs over a lot of years, including hunting hounds, and although I cannot claim it has been incident free, I doubt whether I have had more than half a dozen problems with my dogs and sheep over the last 60 years -- and that includes hunting a pack of hounds for a couple of seasons.

It is possible to proof dogs off sheep -- and if you can't, it's quite simple. Keep them on the f**king lead!

 

[Dry Rot]

Did my video. Tis shareable if anyone wishes to. Happy to stick my head above the parapet

Can we have a link, please?

 

[APJ]

Maybe we should get “Tff” made signs to fit to the gates/footpaths surely Clive could get some custom Made fit for purpose with the correct/effective wording on them also some to aid the public’s understanding of staying to the footpaths would be useful too. Only an idea!

 

[Highland Mule]

Can we have a link, please?

As a guess;

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Good job too !

 

[Bobthebuilder]

was always told to carry a bit of wool in my pocket, if at anytime i need to shoot a dog stuff the wool in its mouth, never had to but would if i need to, had a few killed and injured a few years ago but it was at night and only found them in the morning when dog was long gone

 

[HolzKopf]

Maybe we should get “Tff” made signs to fit to the gates/footpaths surely Clive could get some custom Made fit for purpose with the correct/effective wording on them also some to aid the public’s understanding of staying to the footpaths would be useful too. Only an idea!

The yellow NFU signs are too timid - but they still get removed. In many cases they are like a 30mph sign with no camera or police about - ignored. Lockdown dog walkers are a different breed - the breed of £2000+ dogs, untrained and dressed in Barbour quilted coats (the dogs not the owners). I met a woman on a footpath last week with 2 bulldogs - both straining at the leash and almost up to their chests in mud. One was struggling - "C'mon Gary" she says and drags the dog along. Our roads that have footpaths off them have verges that are trashed. I've posted before that the footpaths can be five or six metres wide.

All the time we are allowed to travel to exercise and parents bow to their kids for a lockdown dog there will be issues. We will have to police the turnout of lambs very carefully as we have footpaths in three different fields. It's also being in the right place at the right time. WhenI look at the 'vermin' or 'bird' conditions on my FAC, I think, now reading this, that I would be on a sticky wicket toting a .243 or a .17 HMR in the back of my truck on a regular basis. A pump with SG would be a safer bet but you need to be in range if there's an issue.

It's still all down to the owner - always on the lead please around stock, end of. There is no compulsion or now no incentive to train your dog. The Kennel Club training schemes and awards seem to have been forgotten in the rush to pack your puppy into your RR Sport. We've contemplated fencing off the footpaths with netting and two strands of barb but it's the pain of maintaining the grass inside the corridor and hedge cutting that puts us off.

Weekends are like a pre-covid high-street round here. We've got to get to the other side of this. The NFU are sterile, payments for 'public good' will only exacerbate the situation and Chris Packham, now on the BBC twice a night, every night encourages the general public to view wildlife and its management in a bunny-hugging way. We are too accessible. Try walking round a factory with kids, dogs and a go where you please attitude. I'm afraid it's yet another sign of the times.

HK

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Try leaving some brass about the footpath? And just hang one of these up. Maybe replace the word trespasser

You haven't shot any one, or any thing, but the seed is sown.... and if the plods are called, then there isn't even a threat.

 

[betweenthelines]

You only have the right to shoot a dog if it is attacking your stock, not if you think it may have done or may do so.

As Dry Rot said, not all dogs in the same field as sheep are "worrying" them. If your neighbour visits you and doesn't put his working sheepdog on a lead, would you shoot it. Not everyone with well trained dogs wears and tweed cap.

Genuine cases of dogs attacking sheep are worrying, but so are the number of posters on here who seem willing to ignore the Law, even as far as "planting" evidence

 

[Chopsy Varmint]

I'm confused. I fully understand that dogs worrying livestock is a big problem, but not so long ago I'm sure I read that a TFFer's dog had gone off unsupervised and uncontrolled to a neighbour's farm and worried their sheep, and most of the responses were to give the dog a second chance and it was just a training issue. I thought it was odd at the time but kept schtum because I figured I must be missing something.

However now having read the posts on this thread I don't understand why that dog and owner were given a free pass, 'these things happen', whereas if it had belonged to a non-farmer and chewed a sheep the same posters would have been baying for its blood?

 

[tepapa]

Someone should make a poster saying something like" you wouldn't let a child play on a motorway (or in the road) , don't let your dog off a lead"

Imply the outcome of is bad for both events.

 

[Dry Rot]

I'm confused. I fully understand that dogs worrying livestock is a big problem, but not so long ago I'm sure I read that a TFFer's dog had gone off unsupervised and uncontrolled to a neighbour's farm and worried their sheep, and most of the responses were to give the dog a second chance and it was just a training issue. I thought it was odd at the time but kept schtum because I figured I must be missing something.

However now having read the posts on this thread I don't understand why that dog and owner were given a free pass, 'these things happen', whereas if it had belonged to a non-farmer and chewed a sheep the same posters would have been baying for its blood?

There are occasions when a dog may perfectly legitimately 'worry' sheep. When researching the law, I discovered that it was legal for your dog to worry sheep straying onto your own land if it did it on it's own initiative, but illegal for the owner to set his dog on marauding sheep. (The law seems to accept that it is natural for a dog to defend it's home). For that reason, I'd like to know the facts of the case before coming to a judgement. Did the dog perhaps drive the sheep off home territory when they strayed onto it? Sorry, I didn't see the original post.

 

[Chopsy Varmint]

There are occasions when a dog may perfectly legitimately 'worry' sheep. When researching the law, I discovered that it was legal for your dog to worry sheep straying onto your own land if it did it on it's own initiative, but illegal for the owner to set his dog on marauding sheep. (The law seems to accept that it is natural for a dog to defend it's home). For that reason, I'd like to know the facts of the case before coming to a judgement. Did the dog perhaps drive the sheep off home territory when they strayed onto it? Sorry, I didn't see the original post.

I tried to find the original post and subsequent replies but I can't remember who it was and so far haven't narrowed down the search terms enough.

If I remember rightly the offending dog had disappeared from the farm without anyone realising until a call from the neighbours to say it was worrying their sheep and I think there was some comment about offering to pay for any damage or slipped lambs.

The bit that made it stick in my mind was that another poster said the dog should be shot as would a member of the public's dog caught doing the same, but was contradicted by more than one other TFFer because it should have a second chance and just needed more training. This struck me as odd when the general rule is shoot any dog worrying sheep and ask questions later.

I am genuinely confused because surely there aren't different rules for the same behaviour and potentially devastating results for the livestock, depending on who the dog belongs to?

 

[Chopsy Varmint]

Someone should make a poster saying something like" you wouldn't let a child play on a motorway (or in the road) , don't let your dog off a lead"

Imply the outcome of is bad for both events.

These days the most effective poster might be one saying 'Dognappers are active in this area, please keep your dog on a short lead to avoid it being stolen'.