Dogs That Attack Sheep

[RedMerle]

I realise policing varies across the UK however prosecutions for sheep worrying do occur.

If you are unhappy as a victim of crime with the reason an offence hasn't gone to court then go in and ask the question why. It may be that there is a lack of evidence which under the current legal system means that it cannot be proved. It may be that it was referred to the courts who decided not to proceed. Or in rare cases it may be that investigation was insufficient. The framework is there for you to make a complaint if you feel your crime has not been sufficiently investigated. It is your right to follow that through.

 

[Lovegoodstock]

Despite the above post, the general view is dogs are rarely put down when guilty of a sheep attack and its a legal tightrope with shooting them. The irony is, 20 years ago we had a stupid woman wander 50 metres off of footpath onto our yard, I presume for a nose around. She went into a loosebox where our collie tess had her pups 2 days prior. As soft a collie as we ever had, but she nipped this woman, which I think is completely fair enough, a stranger entering her patch with young pups, think tess had a right to savage the stupid woman. Dad got taken to court to have her destroyed, our vet, yes really, attended and gave a character reference, the only way she was saved was she got rehomed to vets in laws, I think up in Northumbria where they were 10s of miles away from a footpath. Madness. No hope of getting the woman done for trespassing. Remember I think in Farmers Guardian a guy got fed up with problem walkers so fenced off the footpath with a high sided fence so they couldn't even see over. Loved it,would love to do the same, hassle of splitting fields and must have 10 miles of footpaths here on 800 acres. Such a pain. Though an odd field of maize planted by neighbour each year between me and village has helped reduce numbers a lot. Cattle as well seem to put a lot off which is a bonus

 

[RedMerle]

That's the other side where you just wonder why the crown took that case on and in who's public interest was it.

 

[Lovegoodstock]

Now I can see it happening, everyone a victim etc etc. But this must have been 20/22 years ago. Still infuriates me, just cant understand the stupidity or selfishness of some people. For that woman to trespass, ok metres, and sure not maliciously, but she did, and invaded private space of a lovely bitch, and she did open the door as we were lambing and Tess was prone to forgetting pups in favour of working sheep, and then to think its fair to prosecute us, try to destroy in my eyes a completely innocent bitch, shame it wasn't simply thrown out, don't know the legalities, but at least the magistrate allowed the option of keeping her alive, albeit we lost one of our better working dogs

 

[RedMerle]

You probably got unlucky when the Dangerous Dogs 1994 legislation came in. It would have been fresh on the agenda.

I didn't think it applied in private space until recently but it could have come down to whatever definition they use for a public space in England.

 

[Longlowdog]

A public space is regrettably often defined as a space where any stupid, nosy or thieving b'stard can walk or force their way into. In this land nothing you own is yours, there are even folk who would steal your name and identity. I love America and its Castle Doctrine where you don't have to tolerate trespass and you can shoot the offender. No-one in another man's shed would have any rights if bitten by a trained attack dog. Come the revolution guess what my second law will be...

 

[Longlowdog]

This is really the best way to defend sheep. Fight fire with fire.
https://www.facebook.com/kangalsafarii/

 

[Lovegoodstock]

Off point, but was a huge push for farmers in bucks few years back to go to a health and safety half day course. High attendance, guess like me didn't want a spot check if your were invited but didn't attend. But remember being told the importance of having signs on every shed, pointing out the danger of falling through roof, use crawling boards etc, at the time there was 2 cases where burglars were gaining access through the roof and had fallen through and injured their backs, to what extent I cant recall, but even though burglars, it was night so wouldn't see any signs, the farmer was being prosecuted!! Really is the world gone mad, what hope do you have?

 

[shearerlad]

Despite the above post, the general view is dogs are rarely put down when guilty of a sheep attack and its a legal tightrope with shooting them. The irony is, 20 years ago we had a stupid woman wander 50 metres off of footpath onto our yard, I presume for a nose around. She went into a loosebox where our collie tess had her pups 2 days prior. As soft a collie as we ever had, but she nipped this woman, which I think is completely fair enough, a stranger entering her patch with young pups, think tess had a right to savage the stupid woman. Dad got taken to court to have her destroyed, our vet, yes really, attended and gave a character reference, the only way she was saved was she got rehomed to vets in laws, I think up in Northumbria where they were 10s of miles away from a footpath. Madness. No hope of getting the woman done for trespassing. Remember I think in Farmers Guardian a guy got fed up with problem walkers so fenced off the footpath with a high sided fence so they couldn't even see over. Loved it,would love to do the same, hassle of splitting fields and must have 10 miles of footpaths here on 800 acres. Such a pain. Though an odd field of maize planted by neighbour each year between me and village has helped reduce numbers a lot. Cattle as well seem to put a lot off which is a bonus

Thats horrendous. Bitch was defending her pups against a stranger.
Last summer we had a litter of pups from OH's spaniel. Whelped one morning at same time vet was here doing a CS on a heifer with a breech. CS was done and vet looked in on the bitch and her pups (nothing more than professional curiousness) and she had a go at him. Vet was more than happy to see her protecting her new litter from a stranger.

 

[Lovegoodstock]

For the hassle it caused, and we had to let her go elsewhere I wish she had of bit the silly cow rather than nipped her, not that you can say that of course

 

[Dry Rot]

I realise policing varies across the UK however prosecutions for sheep worrying do occur.

If you are unhappy as a victim of crime with the reason an offence hasn't gone to court then go in and ask the question why. It may be that there is a lack of evidence which under the current legal system means that it cannot be proved. It may be that it was referred to the courts who decided not to proceed. Or in rare cases it may be that investigation was insufficient. The framework is there for you to make a complaint if you feel your crime has not been sufficiently investigated. It is your right to follow that through.

It is worth making a complaint if for no other reason than to stand back and watch how a real professional explains away laziness, ineptitude, and gross incompetence. What ever an independent complaints body comes up with, the police will explain it away with expertise honed by decades of experience. Only 1% of complaints against the police are upheld. Nevertheless, when things go wrong, complaining is not just a right but a duty. At least, they won't be able to deny all knowledge.

 

[RedMerle]

It is worth making a complaint if for no other reason than to stand back and watch how a real professional explains away laziness, ineptitude, and gross incompetence. What ever an independent complaints body comes up with, the police will explain it away with expertise honed by decades of experience. Only 1% of complaints against the police are upheld. Nevertheless, when things go wrong, complaining is not just a right but a duty. At least, they won't be able to deny all knowledge.

We're all aware from your posts that you have had issues with Police Scotland.

Your experience however will be limited to a particular group of officers or individual officers.

To tar the whole of the United Kingdom police force as lazy is unfair. Pick up any newspaper and you will find that corruption and neglect of duty is dealt with. You just don't hear about it as much in Scotland because misconduct hearings are not held in public. That does not mean that there aren't officers doing a good job and challenging bad practice.

North Yorkshire has a particularly good Rural Crime team. You only have to scroll down he local Facebook to see that they are dealing with rural crime. Turn up to an auction mart in North Yorkshire area and you'll see a police presence on occasion.

There's two sides to every story. None of us here can say from your side whether you were dealt with fairly. However you did previously state you voluntarily signed to surrender your weapons.

If you are unhappy with Police action then speak to the IPCC or PIRC.

Just to be clear I'm not saying you weren't poorly treated. But if you were you need to maintain the moral high ground and follow the complaints procedure/appeals process and stick to the facts of the thing you are complaining about.

 

[Dry Rot]

We're all aware from your posts that you have had issues with Police Scotland.

Your experience however will be limited to a particular group of officers or individual officers.

To tar the whole of the United Kingdom police force as lazy is unfair. Pick up any newspaper and you will find that corruption and neglect of duty is dealt with. You just don't hear about it as much in Scotland because misconduct hearings are not held in public. That does not mean that there aren't officers doing a good job and challenging bad practice.

North Yorkshire has a particularly good Rural Crime team. You only have to scroll down he local Facebook to see that they are dealing with rural crime. Turn up to an auction mart in North Yorkshire area and you'll see a police presence on occasion.

There's two sides to every story. None of us here can say from your side whether you were dealt with fairly. However you did previously state you voluntarily signed to surrender your weapons.

If you are unhappy with Police action then speak to the IPCC or PIRC.

Just to be clear I'm not saying you weren't poorly treated. But if you were you need to maintain the moral high ground and follow the complaints procedure/appeals process and stick to the facts of the thing you are complaining about.

Quote: "....stick to the facts of the thing you are complaining about". So, are you calling me a liar?

If you'd followed the story (regular members on here must be bored stiff from hearing it by now!), you'd know that I had taken my case to the PIRC (in Scotland) who upheld three out of four of my complaints!

I suggest you do a Google for "police corruption" and you might find the results revealing. For example, did you know that in England and Wales over 940 police officers have a criminal record? https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/jan/02/police-944-officers-criminal-record

Firearms legislation is currently being used to remove guns from owners who need them to do their job and earn a living. These people have not been convicted of any offence but are merely suspected of non-violent action and it iappears that the police cannot be bothered to gather the evidence and take it though the courts.

There are official guidelines for the seizure of weapons that are being ignored. In my own case, I was not informed of what I was meant to have done for TEN months. Even then, the complaint appears to have been malicious. But I am not allowed to know who complained without a court order because it would infringe their right to privacy! The police have completely ignored their official guidelines which state that such matters should be dealt with expeditiously and the gun owner kept informed. I was even asked to sign a "surrender for destruction" form for my guns on the pretext that it was "just a receipt". Coincidentally, I had complained about planning fraud about that time which apparently is "not a police matter".

I shall stand up on my hind legs and shout as loudly as I can whenever I experience injustice. My grandfather was chief inspector of Liverpool police and I have been brought up to expect very high standards of the police. Yes, there are honest police officers but I would suggest they are equally guilty for "Evil flourishes when good men do nothing". Worse still are those who try to intimidate those who do stand up to them. As tax payers, we employ the police and pay their wages, not vice versa.

 

[Dry Rot]

It seems I may have misunderstood Red Merle's post. He has kindly sent me a PM and peace is restored. Anyway, I am always grateful for any opportunity to air my grievances against the police as some <yawn> may have noticed!