Dosing ewes after lambing options

valtraman

Member
I’ve just started inside lambing 🙈 ewes were fluke doses with closantol based drench after scanning at new year. Ewes have been inside a month now give or take. Years ago we would lamb bit later well into March and ewes would get a wormer normally zermex drench before turnout with lambs . This time with them not being out much since after scanning should I just turn out ewes with lambs and dose the ewes when lambs get there first dose ?? That’s what I did last year . Also was being told few people give the long lasting zermex jag behind ear at turnout ? Never done that before
 

puppet

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
sw scotland
Don't dose any ewes unless thin. I would almost suggest that applies at any time of year. Ewes will shed eggs due to the stress of lambing but lambs are not eating much grass at that stage. First flush you can dose the lambs but again I would leave ewes as they have immunity to the worms on your farm. Dosing just selects the resistant strains and 5 years down the line you are stuck.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Don't dose any ewes unless thin. I would almost suggest that applies at any time of year. Ewes will shed eggs due to the stress of lambing but lambs are not eating much grass at that stage. First flush you can dose the lambs but again I would leave ewes as they have immunity to the worms on your farm. Dosing just selects the resistant strains and 5 years down the line you are stuck.

That’s the theory. However, I suspect doing so has allowed haemonchus to build up here, which has resulted in 100 less lambs in the affected bunch.
 

valtraman

Member
Don't dose any ewes unless thin. I would almost suggest that applies at any time of year. Ewes will shed eggs due to the stress of lambing but lambs are not eating much grass at that stage. First flush you can dose the lambs but again I would leave ewes as they have immunity to the worms on your farm. Dosing just selects the resistant strains and 5 years down the line you are stuck.
I’m not sure I’m brave enough to wait until ewes are failing until dosing them. It’s easy for a sheep to loose condition but takes a long time for it to gain it back.
 

hendrebc

Member
Livestock Farmer
I've had the same as neilo this year with haemonchus knocking the ewes about. Not dosed an adult ewe for years because pooled group FEC always come back at 0-100epg usually zero though and just do the odd one that looks wormy. Trouble is just because the pooled fec is 0 doesn't mean that there aren't wormy ewes in amongst the mob. sheep are individuals after all so even if you do get a sample from 10% of a big mob of sheep it's still a lot you've not tested and any that are really wormy are still shedding a lot of eggs and are not getting dosed. Even if you pick up some of the wormy ones poo it will be diluted by the non wormy ones. Worming the ewes once a year before lambing like we used to do would have cleared out those wormy ewes and they wouldn't be shitting out worm eggs (including the barsteward haemonchus eggs) for the lambs to pick up later.
I've noticed that we get more worm challenge in the lambs since we stopped drenching ewes. I put that down to the few wormy ewes in the mob shedding eggs constantly. Not the end of the world if you can keep on top of it with regular monitoring of FECs but we do get caught out still. And still think it's a good thing in a way because it's helping to stop drench resistance by not dosing ewes that didn't need it. But really if the ewes didn't have worms anyway what difference would a dose make to resistance 🤷‍♂️ and you'd still catch the wormy ones that need it and there would be no worms to not get killed causing resistance in the ewes that didn't need it. You can't do a FEC on all the ewes to find the ones that need it....
The worst thing about not drenching ewes here is its allowed haemonchus to get a foothold becauseit could keep ticking over in the ewes all winter. I didn't know we had it here till a few weeks ago but something has been niggling for years that I couldn't put my finger on it all makes sense now (lots of things thet have happened with the sheep last few years make sense now I know about haemonchus) and looking back it's all started about the time I stopped worming ewes every year... if you don't have haemonchus on farm not drenching ewes is probably good advice to help stop drench resistance but if you do I think you will need to break uts life cycle at some point every year.
I'll have to drench more now to keep on top of it so long term not drenching adult ewes has been lose lose here. If only I'd known about haemonchus when I started everything you read says its only in the south of England don't worry 🙄
Don't have any drench resistance though even to white wormers and that was used quite heavily for years before I was about. Not sure how not worming adult ewes has helped wurh that but I hope it has or I've got haemonchus for no reason.
Need lots more cattle.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
You must dose your sheep, keep getting shot down on here for saying it.
What is seen as wisdom in the college /textbook often doesnt work in real life.

There is no doubt that you get maximum performance from keeping sheep free of internal parasites, which is how the whole ‘3 weekly worming’ thing came about. However, it has also been shown, globally, as the very best way to accelerate the development of worm resistance to anthelmintics.

If you haven’t got resistance yet, or (more commonly) don’t know you have it yet, what will you do when it does become a problem? I know several people that are dealing with resistance to all groups apart from Zolvix (so far), and it’s a hell of an expensive headache for them.
It’s too late to do anything about it at that point, but possible to delay it beforehand.
 

Anymulewilldo

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cheshire
I do worm and fluke our ewes pre lambing. It’s the only time the ewes get wormed all year. Apart from the fresh weaned ewe hoggs. They get done in August too make sure they are set too grow over the winter.

On bad fluke years the ewes also get a straight fluke dose at lambing pre turnout. Type totally depends on what the vet tells me when we’ve done the FEC.

It must be the thick end of 25 years since we wormed every 3 weeks. Certainly not something I can remember as a kid. Feeding lambs might get 3 doses between September and March. Unless bunch specific problems occur of course.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Cydectin La behind the ear at turnout

That product has a very long tail off of ai, meaning you will effectively be under dosing most of the worm species for 3 months. That is the very fastest way to accelerate the rate of resistance to moxidectin developing, which apparently means resistance to ivermectin too.

It is a fantastic product for reducing worm burden on the pasture, but what are you going to do once you can’t use moxidectin (and ivermectin) ever again?
 

hendrebc

Member
Livestock Farmer
Noticed exactly the same and so started worming ewes before lambing and have seen a benefit to the lambs


This is my worry going forward as we are reducing cattle numbers
I don't know how sustainable sheep only systems will be without new classes of wormer coming in which might never happen :confused: a bit like continuous wheat and black grass that arable farmers moan about all the time when the sprays stop working. They are always told that proper old fashioned mixed farming is the way to deal with it it will be the same with sheep. Cattle will help break the worm life cycles as would a crop of something to get some clean grazing after it.
Getting rid of lambs earlier even if its as stores will help as well adult sheep can handle worms a lot better while lambs and hoggs will be shitting out eggs all the time. I've put some red clover in last year to try and get a lamb finishing crop and get lambs away earlier it should help with the worm burden across the whole farm if it works as well as it should.
If I get rid of all.my lambs before November December as well it would free up a shed that has hoggs in it now to winter some sheep, probably replacement ewe lambs or maybe shearlings in too. That would help with less worm eggs being shed over winter. And start using some more worm resistant genetics in the rams.
I'm rambling now 🤪
 
Similar thinking to me. hoping to have enough space from freed up cattle shed to house more sheep. Have considered growing a grass crop to sell as hay or silage to give some clean grazing but it can be worth very little in some years and with the cost of fertiliser the P and K offtake is expensive to replace. Maybe need to run some store cattle for their hidden benefits, we're reducing cows due to losing some buildings to a new road.
 

muleman

Member
Not sure there are many folk that dose every 3 weeks but there's a happy medium.
We do ewes with fluke and worm now, again pre tupping, january trodax .
Would lose a lot of ewes if we didnt keep on top of the job and would have a lot of lean bad performing ewes.
We are in one of the wettest areas in the Uk tho on the edge of the lake district,
Drier areas no doubt wont have the same trouble.
 

Al R

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
West Wales
That product has a very long tail off of ai, meaning you will effectively be under dosing most of the worm species for 3 months. That is the very fastest way to accelerate the rate of resistance to moxidectin developing, which apparently means resistance to ivermectin too.

It is a fantastic product for reducing worm burden on the pasture, but what are you going to do once you can’t use moxidectin (and ivermectin) ever again?
What about cydectin oral? Does it kill there and then or over a “prolonged” period like the injection?
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
What about cydectin oral? Does it kill there and then or over a “prolonged” period like the injection?

It has a persistency against some species (not nematodirus) for three weeks iirc. Not as long a persistent action, or as slow a tail off, as the 2% injection. Sheep given the oral drench will still hoover up worms from the pasture, reducing contamination, but not for anywhere near as long.

The 2% injection, for as long as it works, is a great tool for pasture cleaning. I intend using it as a one off this year, to try to reduce the haemonchus burden we seem to have built up, but certainly not every year, as many do.
 
Going to do ours with the 2% injection mainly because it covers scab as well. Brought some lambs home from some land 3 miles away and there was a lamb in with them which looks to have scab. It's not ours and has no tags but I know whose it is. I've had to inject that batch of hoggs with Ivermectin and by the time they're ready to go they will be big! I didn't notice the lamb for a while and one batch of ewes was next to them. Would it be a crime to keep the lamb:unsure:
 

Anymulewilldo

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cheshire
Going to do ours with the 2% injection mainly because it covers scab as well. Brought some lambs home from some land 3 miles away and there was a lamb in with them which looks to have scab. It's not ours and has no tags but I know whose it is. I've had to inject that batch of hoggs with Ivermectin and by the time they're ready to go they will be big! I didn't notice the lamb for a while and one batch of ewes was next to them. Would it be a crime to keep the lamb:unsure:
Last time I had a wanderer we kept it until the end. No one came forward so it went too Bentham with ours and I sold it as a charity Hogg
 

muleman

Member
Going to do ours with the 2% injection mainly because it covers scab as well. Brought some lambs home from some land 3 miles away and there was a lamb in with them which looks to have scab. It's not ours and has no tags but I know whose it is. I've had to inject that batch of hoggs with Ivermectin and by the time they're ready to go they will be big! I didn't notice the lamb for a while and one batch of ewes was next to them. Would it be a crime to keep the lamb:unsure:
Dont go down the same route as them just along the road!
 

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Man fined £300 for bonfire-related waste offences

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Written by William Kellett from Agriland

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A man has pleaded guilty at Newtownards Magistrates’ Court to waste offences relating to a bonfire next to the electrical sub-station on the Circular Road in Newtownards, Co. Down.

Gareth Gill (51) of Abbot’s Walk, Newtownards pleaded guilty to two charges under the Waste and Contaminated Land (Northern Ireland) Order 1997, for which he was fined £150 each and ordered to pay a £15 offender’s levy

On June 25, 2018, PSNI officers went to Gill’s yard, where they found a large amount of waste consisting of scrap wood, pallets, carpet and underlay.

Discussion with Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA) officers confirmed the site...
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