Drilling capacity with D/D system?

Pilatus

Member
Location
cotswolds
If D/D drilling ,Zero drilling ,do you think that one needs to almost ,have double the drilling capacity ,for the same cropped area as if one is min tilling or conventional tillage, due to the ideal conditions for a zero till drill to work properly are a lot less.
 

Timbo1080

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Somerset
Exceptionally limited experience, but our capacity is currently half that with the 6m 750A compared to our 6m KRM R600. This is due to significantly reduced forward speed, as opposed to a smaller drilling window.

Never really min-tilled, have been 1-2 inch scratching with discs in front of the KRM since the burning ban.....
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
If D/D drilling ,Zero drilling ,do you think that one needs to almost ,have double the drilling capacity ,for the same cropped area as if one is min tilling or conventional tillage, due to the ideal conditions for a zero till drill to work properly are a lot less.

you need half the capacity you had wth a tillage system

6m zero-till drill is good for 4k acres IMO split autumn / spring
 

Will7

Member
you need half the capacity you had wth a tillage system

6m zero-till drill is good for 4k acres IMO split autumn / spring
I have an 8m on 1500 acres, although I only do 7km/hr. I reckon to only have 4 days suitable for cereal drilling in the autumn, so 2000 acres would be a bit of a push.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
You need more IMO. This year has been exceptionally easy. What little rain we've had shows how quickly good conditions can turn into bad conditions.

are you assuming the same cropping though ? i.e. winter/ spring split or taking into account the system change that usualy comes with a successful move from tillage to zero-till typically involving a higher % of spring crops and more diversity spreading drill dates better ?

When we ran a 6m rapid it was just about on top or 2-2500ac of total cropping but bias was mostly autumn sewn
under no till 1x 6m drill could cope with 4000ac fairly easy with a 40% spring split

when we first changed we the 6m rapid was replaced with a used 4m 750a and we were much more on top of the job from year 1

we are logistically poor, small fields and lots of road work, im sure in big open fields and ring fenced units in the east you should be doing much more ?

The window to drill on undisturbed soil is bigger - on our soil we can get back on after rain much faster on undisturbed land than we could on cultivated land
 
are you assuming the same cropping though ? i.e. winter/ spring split or taking into account the system change that usualy comes with a successful move from tillage to zero-till typically involving a higher % of spring crops and more diversity spreading drill dates better ?

When we ran a 6m rapid it was just about on top or 2-2500ac of total cropping but bias was mostly autumn sewn
under no till 1x 6m drill could cope with 4000ac fairly easy with a 40% spring split

when we first changed we the 6m rapid was replaced with a used 4m 750a and we were much more on top of the job from year 1

we are logistically poor, small fields and lots of road work, im sure in big open fields and ring fenced units in the east you should be doing much more ?

The window to drill on undisturbed soil is bigger - on our soil we can get back on after rain much faster on undisturbed land than we could on cultivated land

We've discussed this a lot on here, but with black-grass the number of good and suitable drilling days in the autumn are lot smaller than those without. Those without can start drilling in mid-September without worrying. We can't.
 

Northdowns Martin

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Snodland kent
From reading other threads I would suggest that theoretically some no-tillers are well over capacity by having a choice of 2 drills in their sheds. i.e. Disc and tine. I can see the merits in this and will be pimping my tine drill accordingly over the winter.
 

Will7

Member
4 days is s very small window, where do you farm ?
Lincolnshire,

I budget on having 4 days drilling between enough moisture to make the blackgrass grow, and having to maul it in where you create lumps rather than tilth so thereby reduce the efficency of the pre-em. So far I haven't had that this year given the bg only began to emerge 2 weeks ago.

And you reckon you want blackgrass ridden heavy land to farm!!
 
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I reckon on a light land farm without black-grass you can nearly run half the drilling capacity compared to heavy land with black-grass. Crops reach harvest earlier, can grow a wider range of crops (e.g. stuff that can't be grown on high pH soils), travel quicker with the sprayer after a rain, no watercourses which restrict optimum conditions for spraying even more, much easier to make seedbeds if cultivating. We basically pay a rent to black-grass and heavy land, either in autumn chems, mole / tile drainage costs, increased machinery costs, etc.
 
Location
Cheshire
I reckon on a light land farm without black-grass you can nearly run half the drilling capacity compared to heavy land with black-grass. Crops reach harvest earlier, can grow a wider range of crops (e.g. stuff that can't be grown on high pH soils), travel quicker with the sprayer after a rain, no watercourses which restrict optimum conditions for spraying even more, much easier to make seedbeds if cultivating. We basically pay a rent to black-grass and heavy land, either in autumn chems, mole / tile drainage costs, increased machinery costs, etc.
Probably a 1/4. Double drilling window and double fit days on light land. 3/4 yield though.
 

clbarclay

Member
Location
Worcestershire
As always have as much drill capacity as you think you can justify. I have two ~3m drills cropping 500 ac. I don't recall every using two drills at the same time though. If I was feeling rich I would have a 6m tine drill, as much for reducing work speed and general convenience.


Its a bit like how bigger tractor to put on a trailer on hill ground. A while ago I calculated how much power you would need for a tractor and trailer at max train weight to maintain 40 km/h up a 1 in 4 gradient and recall it was something ridiculous like 900 hp.
 

E_B

Member
Location
Norfolk
I reckon on a light land farm without black-grass you can nearly run half the drilling capacity compared to heavy land with black-grass. Crops reach harvest earlier, can grow a wider range of crops (e.g. stuff that can't be grown on high pH soils), travel quicker with the sprayer after a rain, no watercourses which restrict optimum conditions for spraying even more, much easier to make seedbeds if cultivating. We basically pay a rent to black-grass and heavy land, either in autumn chems, mole / tile drainage costs, increased machinery costs, etc.

Good post. And it's probably our poor farming practice to blame, but most of the time it seems our easier working land ends up yielding as well, if not better, than the tough stuff. Was certainly the case this year. A very dry early Summer might cause that to be different. And you can play at cover crops with it too if you want to.
 

Tractor Boy

Member
Location
Suffolk
I reckon on our heavy land this year the drilling window with our 750 really closed about a week ago. I started drilling wheat on about 27th September and it went in well although there is now some blackgrass coming so was probably a bit early. On 13th October I put our winter beans in behind a heavy chopped wheat straw and the soil was already tacky under the trash despite relatively low rainfall since harvest. Overall on heavy land with blackgrass I think our window for Autumn cropping is probably only the first 10 days of October.
 

Against_the_grain

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
S.E
Doing some direct drilling here now and im with clive, I think we can get away with less capacity than when we drilling into prepared seedbeds. The ability to run longer on undisturbed soil, on heavy land has become apparent already, and then throw in a 40% spring split the benefits of direct drilling seem to snowball in terms of fixed costs.....still not 100% sold on the idea all of the time though!
 
With a wheat Spring barley winter rape winter or spring beans farm a weeks drilling for each crop is optimum
The big costs on a notill disc drill are in terms of acres done so an 8 m drill cost the same per acre as a 4 m but does double the acres before re discing
If you have a narrower width the pressure to drill when condition are not fit out ways the extra cost saving
It is important to know when not to drill having a drill that goes in unfit condition is a disadvantage
The wider the drill the better
 

H.Jackson

Member
Location
West Sussex
Labour profile must affect this the most when drill man is managing and stacking pretty ems for BG drill capacity needs to be the same. cultivation man free to load lorries ferry seed.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Lincolnshire,

I budget on having 4 days drilling between enough moisture to make the blackgrass grow, and having to maul it in where you create lumps rather than tilth so thereby reduce the efficency of the pre-em. So far I haven't had that this year given the bg only began to emerge 2 weeks ago.

And you reckon you want blackgrass ridden heavy land to farm!!

reckon we had more like a 40day autumn drilling window here this year, only needed 14 days of that for cash crops though with x2 6m drills

light drought prone land with limited yield if t doesn't rain at the right time or heavy BG land - every farm has its unique set of limitations and issues ! its never easy for anyone even if it sometimes seems that the other guy has an easier job of it than you
 

Will7

Member
reckon we had more like a 40day autumn drilling window here this year, only needed 14 days of that for cash crops though with x2 6m drills

light drought prone land with limited yield if t doesn't rain at the right time or heavy BG land - every farm has its unique set of limitations and issues ! its never easy for anyone even if it sometimes seems that the other guy has an easier job of it than you
I used to farm light drought prone land 11 yrs ago, I just wish I had the knowledge then that I have now. In that case integrating cover crops with dairy young stock and trying to run a more extensive dairy system.

That said heavy bg land is making my desired system harder to achieve, but we are making progress, and we can yield more reliably than light land but at a higher cost.

I still have a hankering for a wold or downland farm where I can integrate livestock without making a chuffing mess (and the shooting will be better than the fen!). This is inspired by a South Downs farmer whose farm I visited when I was about 19. He was in the Brighton-Lancing area I think and no land was left un cropped for more than 24hrs with extensive use of sheep that he lambed outdoors in pens made of bales. Unfortunately I can't remember his name but it left a real impression on me as a tractor loving teenager
 

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