E10 Petrol.

[Username_Required]

E10 doesn't necessarily contain ethanol, it contains a biofuel with the equivalent co2 saving as 10% ethanol (something like ETBE). The US and many parts of the EU switched to E10 several years ago with very few genuine issues - but plenty of media scaremongering.

There are two immediate issues with higher ethanol levels, the first is compatability with fuel hoses and seals. The second is that as it contains oxygen, E10 may run a little leaner on engines that run open-loop (I.e. don't use a lambda sensor at all times).

As mentioned above, ethanol is hygroscopic, and as it absorbs water it may separate from the petrol and sink to the bottom of the tank. This isn't normally an issue at low levels like 10% but could be if the fuel is in a tank for a very long period of time.

E10 won't necessarily improve the performance of a boosted engine, as the octane number of E10 will be about the same as old regular fuel. Whereas taking old regular fuel and splashing 10% of ethanol on top would give a benefit to these types of vehicles.

 

[steveR]

If you're worried about it in 2-stroke engines...


Buy Aspen.

But bloody hell, hasn't it got expensive!!

 

[Swarfmonkey]

Its ethanol in the UK. The yanks first used ETBE as an anti-smog measure, as an oxygenate to improve combustion. Dunno how much more environmentally friendly ETBE would be than ethanol, overall, given that the industrial process to produce it relies on oil as a feedstock anyway.

10% ethanol blended in 95 Octane petrol should bring it up to just under 97 octane.

 

[Username_Required]

Its ethanol in the UK. The yanks first used ETBE as an anti-smog measure, as an oxygenate to improve combustion. Dunno how much more environmentally friendly ETBE would be than ethanol, overall, given that the industrial process to produce it relies on oil as a feedstock anyway.

10% ethanol blended in 95 Octane petrol should bring it up to just under 97 octane.

No it's not, ETBE is a much bigger thing in the EU than in the US, where they actually used MTBE until it was banned in most states due to water table ingress (housekeeping at US forecourts was historically poor resulting in lots of single skinned, leaking tanks), together with the fact it doesn't rapidly biodegrade and it can be tasted at low ppm levels.

ETBE tends to be bio-ethanol derived nowadays, the isobutene can be made by dehydrating bio-isobutanol, but only one company does it at the moment and its all used elsewhere. As a result only 41% of the ETBE molecule is considered "bio" meaning that you need to add significantly more etbe to petrol than you would for ethanol. But that's fine as its really easy to blend.

10% etoh on 95 RON gasoline comes in just over 98, but when producing E10 you start with a lower octane BOB fuel that means the final fuel will be around 95 RON.

 

[Username_Required]

But bloody hell, hasn't it got expensive!!

It's a nice money maker for someone.

 

[smcapstick]

I have no issue in putting it in my strimmer and old cars/motorcycles.
With the pre-65 vehicles, I add a drop of oil to the tank. It stops the carb needles hanging up because modern petrol is so ‘dry’.

As for hoses perishing, they’re old as the hills anyway. I can replace all the rubber petrol lines on my old Jag for about £4. No biggy!

 

[Swarfmonkey]

Interesting @Username_Required , think i'll go and snag the latest version of EN228 from the engine boys at work on Monday for a looksee.

Every day is a school day

 

[Username_Required]

Interesting @Username_Required , think i'll go and snag the latest version of EN228 from the engine boys at work on Monday for a looksee.

Every day is a school day

Latest one is EN228:2017, P9 -
Table 1 — Requirements and test methods for unleaded petrol with a maximum oxygen content of 3,7 % (m/m)

If you're interested this is all specified in the Fuels Quality Directive, and partly in the Renewable Energy Directive, both a due updates v soon.

Drop me a note if you want to know anymore on this topic.

 

[Username_Required]

I have no issue in putting it in my strimmer and old cars/motorcycles.
With the pre-65 vehicles, I add a drop of oil to the tank. It stops the carb needles hanging up because modern petrol is so ‘dry’.

As for hoses perishing, they’re old as the hills anyway. I can replace all the rubber petrol lines on my old Jag for about £4. No biggy!

Just make sure the hose it ethanol compatible, it might cost an extra quid.

What oil do you drop in the fuel by the way?

 

[Farmer Roy]

If you're worried about it in 2-stroke engines...


Buy Aspen.

But bloody hell, hasn't it got expensive!!

So, I never realised or thought about the fact you could buy premixed 2 stroke fuel before ( apart from the small gravity feed tanks that used to be at servos, that they would have mixed themselves )

I just did a google search, you can buy a 4 l drum of Stihl fuel for $40
Petrol here is about $1.50 / l . . .

or 1 litre for $30 . . .

as for Aspen, I couldnt find a source for it in Australia, except via Ebay at about $70 / 4 litre plus $98 freight from UK


we just use quality synthetic 2 stroke oil & mix it with whatever petrol is available, it seems

 

[FonterraFarmer]

So, I never realised or thought about the fact you could buy premixed 2 stroke fuel before ( apart from the small gravity feed tanks that used to be at servos, that they would have mixed themselves )

I just did a google search, you can buy a 4 l drum of Stihl fuel for $40
Petrol here is about $1.50 / l . . .

View attachment 983789


or 1 litre for $30 . . .

View attachment 983790


as for Aspen, I couldnt find a source for it in Australia, except via Ebay at about $70 / 4 litre plus $98 freight from UK


we just use quality synthetic 2 stroke oil & mix it with whatever petrol is available, it seems

Geez mate ,how hard is it to mix your 2 stroke petrol???
Ffs I've been doing it for the last 40 years.

 

[smcapstick]

Just make sure the hose it ethanol compatible, it might cost an extra quid.

What oil do you drop in the fuel by the way?

TCW3 2-stroke oil. It doesn’t oil up your plugs and it stops the bikes pinking, even after you’ve been giving them some welly.

 

[steveR]

So, I never realised or thought about the fact you could buy premixed 2 stroke fuel before ( apart from the small gravity feed tanks that used to be at servos, that they would have mixed themselves )

I just did a google search, you can buy a 4 l drum of Stihl fuel for $40
Petrol here is about $1.50 / l . . .

View attachment 983789


or 1 litre for $30 . . .

View attachment 983790


as for Aspen, I couldnt find a source for it in Australia, except via Ebay at about $70 / 4 litre plus $98 freight from UK


we just use quality synthetic 2 stroke oil & mix it with whatever petrol is available, it seems

Looks like alylate petrol is being used as it has a long shelf life...

TBH, I bought mine originally for use in a Coleman stove as it is a lot cheaper than the proprietary "white fuel", and burns cleaner than straight petrol. It smells great too!!

Gawd knows what the stove would make of of E10 shite!!

 

[Username_Required]

TCW3 2-stroke oil. It doesn’t oil up your plugs and it stops the bikes pinking, even after you’ve been giving them some welly.

Righto, just thought I'd check for pretty much that reason.

 

[Username_Required]

Looks like alylate petrol is being used as it has a long shelf life...

TBH, I bought mine originally for use in a Coleman stove as it is a lot cheaper than the proprietary "white fuel", and burns cleaner than straight petrol. It smells great too!!

Gawd knows what the stove would make of of E10 shite!!

If its stored properly (a steady, cool temperature in an airtight container) normal petrol can last for quite a long time, 2-3 years is usually fine. It's not as good as the old stuff though, not long before I started work (in the last century) the GPO phoned to check if they could use the petrol in one of their underground tanks that had been untouched for 20+ years, that was fine they just put a splash of fresh on top to help with starting.

 

[Frankzy]

Geez mate ,how hard is it to mix your 2 stroke petrol???
Ffs I've been doing it for the last 40 years.

You don't buy Aspen because it's premixed. You buy Aspen because it is made purely out of alkylate petrol!

Up here we can buy it from the pump and it costs about 10% more than regular petrol..

 

[Farmer Roy]

Petrol $1.50 litre
Pre mixed 2 stroke in a can, anything over $10 / litre

 

[Username_Required]

You don't buy Aspen because it's premixed. You buy Aspen because it is made purely out of alkylate petrol!

It’s fair enough to use it (although I wouldn’t bother personally), but their website is just nonsense.

 

[Frankzy]

It’s fair enough to use it (although I wouldn’t bother personally), but their website is just nonsense.

No I can assure you that the difference between alkylate and regular petrol is almost night and day!
Sure there's some hype there, especially when it comes to stuff like environment and such, but their claims about it being nicer for the work environment definitely isn't hype!

I used to get some wicked headaches when I started out helping my dad with the chainsaw but after we switched to alkylate it has never been a problem. The stuff burns so cleanly I'm not even sure you'd smell it when indoors!

 

[Username_Required]

No I can assure you that the difference between alkylate and regular petrol is almost night and day!
Sure there's some hype there, especially when it comes to stuff like environment and such, but their claims about it being nicer for the work environment definitely isn't hype!

I used to get some wicked headaches when I started out helping my dad with the chainsaw but after we switched to alkylate it has never been a problem. The stuff burns so cleanly I'm not even sure you'd smell it when indoors!

sorry, I wasn’t disputing claims around alkylate - I use quite a lot of it just not in my own machinery, but that the aspen website is just wrong - with pretty much every statement that they make.

Alkylate is typically >95% light paraffins, which do burn more cleanly. It tends to be volatile and therefore vaporised and mixes with the air well - compared to a standard petrol (where you’re trying to achieve a different balance of properties).

If you were having headaches previously that may well be associated with carbon monoxide emissions, which increase dramatically as engines run rich (there’s not enough oxygen to complete combustion). Alkylate has quite low density, so on an engine that doesn’t have a lambda sensor it will run a little leaner, this helps things stay clean but you’ll use a little more fuel (by volume but not by weight) to produce the same power.