Earth Furrow
- Thread starter Cordiale
- Start date
- Location
- 200 miles N,NW of New York
two thirds to three quarters
but then again what class
but then again what class
If the last furrow ploughed towards your neighbour's side is half depth then, without a bit of deception or a deeper that normal finish, it cannot be more than half the height of the penultimate furrow on your side. The soil has to come from somewhere so it must be stolen from the bottom or the side or pushed up to appear higher. Either way it is all about pleasing the judges but is hardly a worthwhile pursuit for any other reason.
I must admit I never thought about class coming into it. I always thought a good finish was pretty much the same whatever the class.
So how do you do it then Bob?
I hardly ever get better than 2/3rds without a deep finish. Some people leave a little in the front furrow to feed the earth furrow and risk the judges poking about looking for buried trash. They hardly ever do because they are looking at the superficial stuff.. Using spacers on some ploughs you can widen the rear furrow and push the board out and various other little tricks but it is only a deception as I said. You can`t create soil out of nowhere since you have moved all the soil 10-14" one way on one side and the opposite way on the other. Trying to cover up the deficit is all you are doing because you are not going to bring it all back in two runs. Nobody has ever explained the answer to this .
Tonym
Member
- Location
- Shropshire
In my eyes matching both sides is more important than the actual size .
If you were buying a pig which one would you go for?
The one with a long and a short ear or the one with two ears the same length wether they be long or short?
If you were buying a pig which one would you go for?
The one with a long and a short ear or the one with two ears the same length wether they be long or short?
So Tony in your eyes it should look the same both sides with just the open furrow. I was taught that it should slope gently to the open finish. I know it is personal preference but I still like the look of a whole furrow and a lesser one of at least fifty percent beside it. Maybe some of the judges on here could enlighten us as to their preferred finishes.
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Same as near as dammit Tony. It looks better and if done right is easier to fill in. 2 reasons for those that say it should only be half way up...
1 To save breaking the wheel off the binder - but then again - not a lot of binders about now.
2 Dearth of skill in not being able to do it properly.
..... and before you all start shouting at me and telling me I am wrong - both variants have been championed by the people organising yon seminars - obviously not at the same time. I also remember at Basingstoke having a particularly good even and straight finish. The local judge told me it was a very poor finish and that the sole furrow should never ever come more than half way up the one preceding it.
.....and whilst we are on - similar can be said (pig with 2 ears matching) about openings in that the people conducting yon seminars seem to be in dispute about openings needing to be balanced.
......and don't forget ....as I said earlier....when all's said and done a properly made finish, balanced and the right depth is far far easier to fill in.
Done August bank holiday in very hard and dry conditions.
I can see a good practical reason for balancing the opening and it demonstrates that the land has been cut through on both sides as well as looking better. I can think of no good reason for saying that it doesn't matter.
Hello again Cordiale
A finish starts a fair way back from where the furrow hole ends up but if you want the finish to be shallow then at least 4 furrows either side leading up to it need to be progressively shallower.
There is a twofold benefit in that as well as keeping the finish shallow, it also keeps the wheeling up to save having the look of two furrow holes.
Call it black art if you like but the last two furrows are different depths. I always lift the front leg and plough a shallow one with the front, at least an inch narrower than the rest of the work to stop the second last looking big. With the front leg lifted and the plough laying slightly to land, the pressure is taken off the back board which has more to do by virtue of being in a hole. I also push the back board out at least 4 flats for the last two runs on stubble, just the last run on grass to tighten the last furrow up to the same height as the second to last which also stops it looking big. If you push it out for both runs on grass, the show furrow is pushed too far and you end up with a step.
It's the second to last which is the hardest one to get right - the last one is easy. Another bit which takes some getting used to is the right amount of weight on the boards for the last run to let the plough run true.
Surely in terms of uniformity then all furrows made in the same direction should look the same, binder or not. Surely this applies to all classes.
For me this all came from years ago when I ploughed thouands of acres with a TS78 on YL's. It was always difficult to make shallow reasonable finishes and not end up with holes you would need a D8 to fill in. Basically I just used to leave enough land to keep the tractor on top for the second last run. For this run the secret was to plough progressively shallow - the front body ploughing just shy of the required depth with the back ploughing no more than an inch and a half, the intent being to leave at least one and a half furrows untouched. For the last run set the plough back to normal, plough a narrower front furrow to counter for the shortfall in the second and let the last three plough Into what was ploughed in the opposite direction. The last three furrow are then turned back in the the opposite direction to they were ploughed, but deeper, meaning that all the trash remains buried and you end up with a single furrow which believe you me is the easiest furr hole you will ever have to fill in.
The biggest problem we all face now is that very few people are singing from the same hymn sheet and different rules have been given at different times to different people - that's before local descrimination and bias kicks in!
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I think that explains the only approach possible but I still maintain that it is a bit of deception and could be interpreted as ploughing an undue proportion of land at an inappropriate depth. The only thing i can say is that match ploughing is an art form, nothing more or less, and points make prizes.
....as I said earlier in the quest of uniformity then a little black art does not go amiss - after all the judge can only judge what he sees and not what's underlying.
When I started, the late John Gwilliam wanted the sole and show furrows matching. Then the world lot started enforcing continental ideas in world style, and the sole had to be up level. That idea has filtered down to all classes now, and not for the best. Similar is the wheel mark people are ploughing a very light furrow so that there is a firm(but unploughed) base for the wheel to run on. The opening is done to prevent a callous of unploughed ground, now we put one near the finish. Really good that, a hard ridge close to a hole!
At the seminar in Somerset last year, I was marked down for my split, as, Quote, it was not a world style split. looking at the photos in the Denmark briefing page, it was almost exactly what was wanted there!
I have more or less given up worrying about results, its as bad as twenty years ago, then you needed to know where the judge came from, and what land he farmed! If I am not ashamed of the plot, that will do, and I am off home.
At the seminar in Somerset last year, I was marked down for my split, as, Quote, it was not a world style split. looking at the photos in the Denmark briefing page, it was almost exactly what was wanted there!
I have more or less given up worrying about results, its as bad as twenty years ago, then you needed to know where the judge came from, and what land he farmed! If I am not ashamed of the plot, that will do, and I am off home.
Dave thanks for such a detailed and Frank answer.
That sounds like an old gentleman ploughman said to me earlier this year. I don't care what the judges think of my ploughing, as long as I'm happy with it that's all that matters.
But surely if you are going to travel around to matches, investing a lot of time and money you have to be interested in the results, otherwise what's the point?
&
I understand what you are saying but I sympathise with Harry and your other old friend. Everyone is subject to some strange judging from time to time but if you never lose the art of self criticism you can still get a lot of pleasure and ignore some of the pain. When you are really on fire even the most obtuse judges find difficulty in putting you down.
I would like to believe that Bob, but facts are different. For example, when one judge was judging, and a certain competitor was taking part, said competitor always came up trumps. How? Easy, he was given top points far his split, and the other points were adjusted to just keep him in front.
Another problem is there when judges dont know what they are looking for, Furrows standing on end, too much coulter face showing,uniform pairs! Finish shallow, but much too wide, and an earhwork on the casting side!
Many ploughmen now know more than the judges, and of those judges who go to seminars, then return to their old ideas, there are no civil words to describe.
One well respected vintage trailed man who attended a seminar for high cut work, proceeded to ask the competitors if he should score the scratches ( answer NO)! at a match he was judging three weeks later!
Photos are of a winning, and also ran plot. the winning one is first. Neither are particulary good, but Oh dear!
Ther is a certain degree of having to live by peer opinion here regardless of scoresheets in the style of Hans Christian Andersen. A good ploughman with an honest disposition always knows how well / poor he has gone regardless of what the judge says.
Seminars have in all fairness done as much harm as good which is not surprising considering the fact as I said earlier that different people have been told different things at different times by different people. Rather a double edged sword with another downside in that a good number of people go away from seminars with a very poor interpretation of what's gone on thinking they are fully fledged and qualified judges, reinforced by the fact that they have paid for the privilege, it being a charity and all that malarkey - and that's before we even start to think about the elephant in the room - general appearance - the ultimate put your mates in weapon.
Sad to say but the vagaries of human nature being as they are then things are unlikely to change for the better, especially while ever the malaise of bad judging favouring the cause of nepotism exists at the very very highest level. After all, what's wrong with an odd 4 or even a 6 or 7 for general appearance when you can give your buddy a 17 or an 18....can't be wrong can it when the top men ln the higher eschelons do it.....can it?.......can it?...you decide!
Seminars have in all fairness done as much harm as good which is not surprising considering the fact as I said earlier that different people have been told different things at different times by different people. Rather a double edged sword with another downside in that a good number of people go away from seminars with a very poor interpretation of what's gone on thinking they are fully fledged and qualified judges, reinforced by the fact that they have paid for the privilege, it being a charity and all that malarkey - and that's before we even start to think about the elephant in the room - general appearance - the ultimate put your mates in weapon.
Sad to say but the vagaries of human nature being as they are then things are unlikely to change for the better, especially while ever the malaise of bad judging favouring the cause of nepotism exists at the very very highest level. After all, what's wrong with an odd 4 or even a 6 or 7 for general appearance when you can give your buddy a 17 or an 18....can't be wrong can it when the top men ln the higher eschelons do it.....can it?.......can it?...you decide!