Eastern Europeans are going to come back as Brits can't cope

[Goweresque]

What we are seeing now is the effects of covid, or rather the lockdowns imposed in response to covid. The economy is a very delicate beast, its an ecosystem really, where millions of individuals interact in certain patterns that have emerged over time, many of which are not necessarily fully rational, but are the product of pure habit. Think of a group of mates going to the pub on a Wednesday night as a regular night out. No massive reason to do it, just habit more than anything. Once that habit is broken the behaviour may not restart, and the pub loses some trade. Thus lockdowns have given this ecosystem an massive shaking and now things are settling out in a different manner to how they used to be before, as billions of human interactions are reset in alternative ways. This is why we are seeing the same effects all across western Europe and North America - wherever lockdowns have been imposed on the economy, systemic disruption is emerging as the long term effects kick in. It has very little to do with Brexit or covid itself, lockdowns are the primary cause of our current economic woes.

 

[Lowland1]

Not sure Brexit is to blame, why would anyone do a manual job or become a lorry driver when governments have convinced kids they must go to collage so they will all become managers immediately on leaving, problems in this country have & always will be caused by ignorant politicians thinking they are so clever & in reality only interested in staying in positions of power!

If they all sat at home after University waiting to be offered the chairmanship of ICI or something i’d agree but they don’t generally once people have finished their degrees they usually take the jobs they can get. Once upon a time people worked down the Pit because that was the only choice now there are lots of choices.

 

[Lowland1]

What we are seeing now is the effects of covid, or rather the lockdowns imposed in response to covid. The economy is a very delicate beast, its an ecosystem really, where millions of individuals interact in certain patterns that have emerged over time, many of which are not necessarily fully rational, but are the product of pure habit. Think of a group of mates going to the pub on a Wednesday night as a regular night out. No massive reason to do it, just habit more than anything. Once that habit is broken the behaviour may not restart, and the pub loses some trade. Thus lockdowns have given this ecosystem an massive shaking and now things are settling out in a different manner to how they used to be before, as billions of human interactions are reset in alternative ways. This is why we are seeing the same effects all across western Europe and North America - wherever lockdowns have been imposed on the economy, systemic disruption is emerging as the long term effects kick in. It has very little to do with Brexit or covid itself, lockdowns are the primary cause of our current economic woes.

I’d agree with that but with the addition that Governments have told people that the work they were doing wasn’t important and stay and home and not only that we can pay you not to do it. When people were saying lives were more important than the economy they were wrong for no other reason than the economy is what drives life.

 

[Goweresque]

I’d agree with that but with the addition that Governments have told people that the work they were doing wasn’t important and stay and home and not only that we can pay you not to do it. When people were saying lives were more important than the economy they were wrong for no other reason than the economy is what drives life.

There's no problem that can't be made 10 times worse by the State trying to 'help'.

 

[le bon paysan]

It's only going to get worse...

Brexit harvest: 5 self-sown problems on Boris Johnson's autumn plate

The UK faces new border constraints as it struggles with supply shortages, the fruit of the government's rejection of EU rules and overseas labour. #UncoveringEurope

www.euronews.com

 

[Oliveau]

I am not sure that many will come now as most of the EU is also short of Drivers and while they can earn more money for a short time, my guess is that the better drivers in full time employment won't be rushing back here.

Quite. Do they actually WANT to come back. Back in the day the eastern EU states were still in a post communist muddle. GB was seen as a way of making a new & decent life.
BUT, look at GB now [and nothing much to do with Brexit]; from their point of view, what's attractive ??

 

[7610 super q]

Tony Blair's legacy really. No one under 40 wants to do these sort of jobs. As @Hilly says, everyone wants to be a customer, no one wants to be staff.
Who thought it would be a good idea to use johny foreigner to pick our veg, and drive lorries ?
Not to mention leaving power supply in the hands of other countries. Is CF the only fertiliser plant in the UK now ? How did that happen ?
We don't manufacture anything anymore, we don't do anything useful. Blimey we seem to lurch from one crisis to the next. Still, mustn't grumble......

 

[le bon paysan]

Quite. Do they actually WANT to come back. Back in the day the eastern EU states were still in a post communist muddle. GB was seen as a way of making a new & decent life.
BUT, look at GB now [and nothing much to do with Brexit]; from their point of view, what's attractive ??

Laughed out loud at Tobias Ellwood on BBC just now.
Our options include bringing in the Army and retraining Afghan immigrants who drove "big lorry's" . Asked if he agreed with Grant Shapps that Brexit was actually helping the UK because "he can change the driving test standards" he smiled ,took a deep breath and fudged all around it

 

[David.]

I'll put the kettle on, we can have a nice cup of boiled water..

 

[Ceri]

This is copied from a FB page. Read it and weep.

So, you are running out of food on the shelves, fuel in the garages, you can’t buy things you need, because the shops can’t get their supplies.
Why is that?
A shortage of goods? No
A shortage of money? No
A shortage of drivers to deliver the goods? Well, sort of.
There isn’t actually a shortage of drivers, what we have, is a shortage of people who can drive, that are willing to drive any more. You might wonder why that is. I can’t answer for all drivers, but I can give you the reason I no longer drive. Driving was something I always yearned to do as a young boy, and as soon as I could, I managed to get my driving licence, I even joined the army to get my HGV licence faster, I held my licence at the age of 17. It was all I ever wanted to do, drive trucks, I had that vision of being a knight of the roads, bringing the goods to everyone, providing a service everyone needed. What I didn’t take into account was the absolute abuse my profession would get over the years.
I have seen a massive decline in the respect this trade has, first, it was the erosion of truck parking and transport café’s, then it was the massive increase in restricting where I could stop, timed weight limits in just about every city and town, but not all the time, you can get there to do your delivery, but you can’t stay there, nobody wants an empty truck, nobody wants you there once they have what they did want.
Compare France to the UK. I can park in nearly every town or village, they have marked truck parking bays, and somewhere nearby, will be a small routier, where I can get a meal and a shower, the locals respect me, and have no problems with me or my truck being there for the night.
Go out onto the motorway services, and I can park for no cost, go into the service area, and get a shower for a minimal cost, and have freshly cooked food, I even get to jump the queues, because others know that my time is limited, and respect I am there because it is my job. Add to that, I even get a 20% discount of all I purchase. Compare that to the UK £25-£40 just to park overnight, dirty showers, and expensive, dried (under heat lamps) food that is overpriced, and I have no choice but to park there, because you don’t want me in your towns and cities.
Ask yourself how you would feel, if doing your job actually cost you money at the end of the day, just so you could rest.
But that isn’t the half of it. Not only have we been rejected from our towns and cities, but we have also suffered massive pay cuts, because of the influx of foreign drivers willing to work for a wage that is high where they come from, companies eagerly recruited from the eastern bloc, who can blame them, why pay good money when you can get cheap labour, and a never ending supply of it as well. Never mind that their own countries would suffer from a shortage themselves, that was never our problem, they could always get people from further afield if they needed drivers.
We were once seen as knights of the road, now we are seen as the lepers of society. Why would anyone want to go back to that?
If you are worried about not getting supplies on your supermarket shelves, ask your local council just how well they cater for trucks in your district.
I know Canterbury has the grand total of zero truck parking facilities, but does have a lot of restrictions, making it difficult for trucks to stop anywhere.
Do you want me to go back to driving trucks? Give me a good reason to do so. Give anyone a good reason to take it up as a profession.
Perhaps once you work out why you can’t, you will understand why your shelves are not as full as they could be.
I tried it for over 30 years, but will never go back, you just couldn't pay me enough.
Thank you to all those people who have shared this post. I never expected such a massive response, but am glad that this message is getting out there. I really hope that some people who are in a position to change just how bad it is for some drivers, can influence the powers that be to make changes for the better. Perhaps some city and town councillors have seen this, and are willing to bring up these issues at their council meetings. It surely cannot be too much to ask of a town/city to provide facilities for those who are doing so much to make sure their economies run and their shops and businesses are stocked with supplies. I never wanted any luxuries, just somewhere safe to park, and some basic ablutions that are maintained to a reasonable standard. I spent my nights away from my home and family for you, how much is it to ask that you at least give me access to some basic services.
There are tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of licence holders just like me, who will no longer tolerate the conditions. So the ball is firmly in the court of the councils to solve this problem.
WOW. 100,000 shares in a week.
I have been humbled by the number of people who have never been involved in transport expressing concern about just how badly truck drivers are treated. I don't think the general public have really ever given it a thought, but I have been pleased to see so many express their displeasure about how we have to live while just providing a service for all of them.
I have heard from a number of news outlets since posting this, but not a single councillor or politician has contacted me.
Not that I think anything will change. Trucks always have been an inconvenience for local governments, and the cost of catering for them is left to someone else, anyone else, yet there is no someone else out there.
I avoided another aspect of the job, that makes it bad even for those who try to get home every night.
We have many transport hubs where goods are collected and then distributed onwards to supermarkets and large retailers. Anyone who has delivered to any of these regional distribution centres will tell you the same story. You arrive there at a fixed time slot (don't be late or you will face serious delays), and you will be told where to park and then where to take your paper work, after that, you will be instructed to back onto a bay at some point, to be unloaded. it might take just 20 minutes to unload a truck, but you can bet that the time spent in this RDC will be much longer, waiting for a bay to tip, waiting for them to actually unload you, and then what is usually the longest wait. Waiting for your paper work, so you can carry on to the next job. It is no wonder there is a shortage of trucks on the roads, 1/2 of them are stuck inside these soulless places waiting for a piece of paper.!

That's Surley the longest post I've seen on here....

 

[David.]

Why would anyone want to go driving so they can try and sleep in a layby and have curtain slashed and tanks drained in the night.
We are becoming the country we deserve to be.

 

[tepapa]

I’d agree with that but with the addition that Governments have told people that the work they were doing wasn’t important and stay and home and not only that we can pay you not to do it. When people were saying lives were more important than the economy they were wrong for no other reason than the economy is what drives life.

How many of the people the government has "saved" from covid will die of other causes within the next 5 years? namely old age.
We obviously didn't know the severity of covid when it first arrived but lookin back in hindsight it make you question the response.

 

[JimAndy]

which part of self fulfilling prophecy did you not get

how is it a self fulfilling prophecy, for that there would need to be a park fully of lorry drivers doing nothing, going "see we told you if we didn't delver stuff you run out". or a supermarket going "see if we don't put stuff on the shelves you run out". all the press has done is highlight that, some firms are having a hard time getting deliveries.

a self fulfilling prophecy is more like the DuP not implementing the NIP, and then going see the NIP isn't working, off course it not working you're doing all you can to make sure it not working

 

[JimAndy]

How many of the people the government has "saved" from covid will die of other causes within the next 5 years? namely old age.
We obviously didn't know the severity of covid when it first arrived but lookin back in hindsight it make you question the response.

well Everyone dies in the end. so if we take that attitude why try to cure anyone

Why would anyone want to go driving so they can try and sleep in a layby and have curtain slashed and tanks drained in the night.
We are becoming the country we deserve to be.

or be responsible for something not you fault. we know off the son of a family friend who was driving back from eastern eu, when he was stopped and they found drugs hidden on the the lorry. it was a part that anyone could have access to. but he still did the jail time for smuggling drugs. needless to say he doesn't drive lorries anymore

 

[tepapa]

well Everyone dies in the end. so if we take that attitude why try to cure anyone

Good point.
It would save the massive black hole in the government finances namely the NHS, it would reduce the health care budget for elderly care and reduce pension payments. It would free up housing reducing the housing crisis and massively reduce the environmental impact humans are having by burning less fossil fuels.

Do you know what I think you've just solved all of mankind's problems.

 

[BrianV]

If they all sat at home after University waiting to be offered the chairmanship of ICI or something i’d agree but they don’t generally once people have finished their degrees they usually take the jobs they can get. Once upon a time people worked down the Pit because that was the only choice now there are lots of choices.

I think it may be a case of false expectations after accumulating so much debt after uni that causes a problem, practical skills should be appreciated far more than useless uni courses.

 

[steveR]

How big is the queue at Calais of forreen drivers waiting to come over here to rescue us?

One????

 

[BrianV]

Why would anyone want to go driving so they can try and sleep in a layby and have curtain slashed and tanks drained in the night.
We are becoming the country we deserve to be.

They always say a country often get's the government it deserves, I guess we are getting what follows voter apathy & a don't care mentality!!

 

[tepapa]

How big is the queue at Calais of forreen drivers waiting to come over here to rescue us?

l think there's a few migrants left that haven't caught a dingy yet.

 

[BrianV]

l think there's a few migrants left that haven't caught a dingy yet.

Might be able to paddle but can they drive!