Impressive Romney, what is your stocking rate? not many romneys over here in Ireland but have seen them out in nz and impressed how they can lamb down with no concs, do you feed your pre lambing?
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easy care sheep margins
- Thread starter willy
- Start date
Global ovine
Member
- Location
- Central Otago NZ
@NZDan
You probably guessed this comment would incur my wrath.....
Where the hell do you scan? I can name dozens of Romney flocks that wean around 160-170%. Many that scan 190%+. You may not have noticed that the Dual Purpose (Maternal) Reproduction winner in the B+LNZ Sheep Awards in 2013 was a Romney Flock. A flock I know more about than anybody except its new owner. The late Richard Chantler from Hay-on-Wye did my scanning from 1990 onwards. By 1996 my Romney flock reached 210% at 69 kgs at mating. I tried to hold fecundity from that point as any higher was getting out of step with my clientele. More was to be gained by putting emphasis on growth, resistance to internal parasites (this flock is still the no.1 in NZ for this trait with 6 rams in the top 20 and 16 in the top 100) and meat yield.
The scanning % to body weight ratio of my former clients were 2.8 to 2.9. Multiply 65 kgs by 2.8 = 182% scanning, and that's in flocks of 1400 - 12500 ewes with labour units to sheep stock units up to 1:5500.
Don't expect too much research from new single genes from AgResearch, all that work has been frozen. GDF9 in Texels will gain traction, as it is one of the drivers that has made the maternal lines different from the terminals.
NZDan
Member
- Location
- Broomfield, New Zealand
No not with GDF9, that's the fecX genes that are in the Belcare, Cambridge and Aberdales, your thinking of.
GDF9 provides a lift with one copy and a double lift width two copies. Nice and simple, and well researched, it's in the Norwegian White breed as well.
NZDan
Member
- Location
- Broomfield, New Zealand
;-) Been waiting for you.
Shame is I don't scan any ewes of your blood lines any more, it's a pity they're not more widely used around here as the were the one strain of Romneys I rates really highly, most of the ones I scan come with lots of hype that to be honest is over rated IMHO, good sheep but not great sheep. While I don't scan a huge number Romneys they are all in that 2.2-2.3 scanning ratio, which isn't everything it is a start point.
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Global ovine
Member
- Location
- Central Otago NZ
You beat me to it Dan.
Quite correct.....no fish hooks with the GDF9 gene. All additive but lacks a bit in precise effect. One copy gives 0.1 - 0.3 lift in scanning %, whereas two copies give 0.2 - 0.6 lift per ewe in scanning. This more than compensates for the lower fecundity of the Texel breed compared to most maternal breeds. It means that the flock can have more Texel carriers added in the future without fear of sterility as with the Inverdale.
Those farmers not wanting too many triplets can get benefits with the inclusion of this gene coupled with the feed savings achieved by not pre tup flushing.
JD-Kid
Member
- Location
- Akaroa.. New Zealand
why were GO's roms droped Dan ?? farmers sold out to dairy or followed other breeds supplyers etc etc
be intresting to see what ours rank at don't think it will be realy high compared to body weight i'd be happy if they scaned around 160 odd % maybe a wee bit higher
be intresting to see what ours rank at don't think it will be realy high compared to body weight i'd be happy if they scaned around 160 odd % maybe a wee bit higher
NZDan
Member
- Location
- Broomfield, New Zealand
I only scanned one lot of GOs genetics Romneys criss crossed with Cheviots, no real reason he stopped buying them other than that GO had sold the stud. He used Poll Dorsets instead of Romneys for a number of years, but his scanning % and survival has dropped and his ewe size has gone up. Latterly he's been replacing the PD rams with Quality FinnTex rams from a local breeder
NZDan
Member
- Location
- Broomfield, New Zealand
I doubt it. Highlanders are bred in quite a specfic direction, I think they are very much in a niche of there own. High %, small ewe size, moderate growth. The few farms I scan that have Highlanders and other breeds find the Highlander ewes are about 8-10kg lighter, scan quite high(2.9-3.1scanning ratio) and wean lambs 4-5kg lighter that thier other breed. But this is just a couple of farms. IMHO the Highlander and the Lleyn are very very similar animals, same strenghts and weakness's.What will they call them? Highlanders?
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NZDan
Member
- Location
- Broomfield, New Zealand
Just scanned some Romneys @152% est weight of 70+ kg.
The range in Romney type and performance seems quite large. Getting the right ram breeder is important,
Global ovine
Member
- Location
- Central Otago NZ
+1
Far more important than most people realise. The reason is; we as farmers see income all the time, but unless we get into detailed business analysis we don't easily see where profit is best made. In previous years and again this year I will be talking about that subject, including the difference between breeders within any breed in the UK seminar series with Easyrams.
I like to use such comparisons as; 2 years full financial and physical performance benchmarking of 83 southern NZ farmers producing 760,000 lambs for the 2 years. 66 used Romneys as their maternal breed. They were split into 3 groups based on how progressive their breeder was in the Romney industry. The difference in "profit per kilo of pasture DM grown" on these farms when comparing ram breeders was 30% more profit across the 3 groups (traditional/no performance recording, medium improvement/recorded mainly for selling reasons, and highly recorded with proven performance improvements) irrespective of size of farms and type of country. Note, more very large hill properties were in the highest performance group.
A recent Beef and Lamb NZ survey found that those farmers who put genetics as a top priority in a list of management options , had 23% more profit (EBITR.....earnings before interest, tax and rent) than those who prioritised source for genetic selection lower.
The telling factor in the NZ Romney industry is which type of breeder actually sells the most rams. Clearly it is the progressive guys, and these can be seen leading the SIL ACE lists for the traits which matter to the commercial farmer. There are regions in NZ where Romneys have not been dominant, these I suspect would have a wider range of genetic capabilities being based more on smaller and more traditional stud flocks.
Such differences are not unique to just one breed, in fact exist across all breeds where trait improvements have been made via measurement and selection.
Scanning to live weight is a good indicator, but remove the empties before doing the maths, as 99% of the time the empty ewes are a result of something peculiar to the farm and should be addressed by management.
1st post have mercy
background
been breeding up my own easier care flock for almost 10 years
intensively rotationally grazed on lowland semi permanent grass white clover swards
questions
would it be advantageous to my margins to introduce chicory or any other herbs etc to my swards?
if it is would it be possible, my swards very very dense (like the owner)?
under intense grazing pressure how long would the herbs survive?
cheers
background
been breeding up my own easier care flock for almost 10 years
intensively rotationally grazed on lowland semi permanent grass white clover swards
questions
would it be advantageous to my margins to introduce chicory or any other herbs etc to my swards?
if it is would it be possible, my swards very very dense (like the owner)?
under intense grazing pressure how long would the herbs survive?
cheers
- Location
- Derbyshire
I have much to learn!
Average ewe weight 80kg - lambing (didn't scan) percentage 215% = scan ratio of 2.53.... Is that bad or good?
I'm going to blood test like mad this year. Are there cheapish arrays I can use to genomically scan my pedigree sheep so I know what I have to work with? I have 15 rams (probably realistically less) that I want to keep on.
Average ewe weight 80kg - lambing (didn't scan) percentage 215% = scan ratio of 2.53.... Is that bad or good?
I'm going to blood test like mad this year. Are there cheapish arrays I can use to genomically scan my pedigree sheep so I know what I have to work with? I have 15 rams (probably realistically less) that I want to keep on.
NZDan
Member
- Location
- Broomfield, New Zealand
2.5 is probably about average. Most flocks are around 2.3-2.5. Top flocks are 3, realistically much more than 3 is probably to high, unless you have genuinely small sheep.
i may have missed something and if i did im sorry but there wouldnt be many/ any easycare type flocks scanning this high, if mine did it would be a nightmare
NZDan
Member
- Location
- Broomfield, New Zealand
I was talking across all breeds, not just Easycare or easy care sheep.i may have missed something and if i did im sorry but there wouldnt be many/ any easycare type flocks scanning this high, if mine did it would be a nightmare
$Sheep
Member
- Location
- New Zealand
I think it would be worthwhile to describe what an easy care or easier care sheep is. I myself am very clear on what I refer to as easier care and it is simply the removal of all unnecessary costs (and so any unwanted jobs) involved in keeping sheep to enable optimal resource usage for return of profit. This would be true for both indoor and outdoor systems so the pros / cons list for easier care for each system should be very similar.
For a NZ hill country setting from own experience I think we are evolving i.e. pushing hard over the next 5 years ahead towards a 180% scanning and 150% weaned lamb percentage from a 65 kgLW ewe measured at tupping. The ewes are cfa 5.5 years and replacement rate 20 - 25 percent with the replacement hogget lambed. A proportion 30 - 40 percent of the ewes are tupped with a terminal sire. The is no tolerance for feet problems, the MA ewes are never drenched, ewe body condition maintained at 3, clipping 4 - 5 kg clean wool with no black spots.
For a NZ hill country setting from own experience I think we are evolving i.e. pushing hard over the next 5 years ahead towards a 180% scanning and 150% weaned lamb percentage from a 65 kgLW ewe measured at tupping. The ewes are cfa 5.5 years and replacement rate 20 - 25 percent with the replacement hogget lambed. A proportion 30 - 40 percent of the ewes are tupped with a terminal sire. The is no tolerance for feet problems, the MA ewes are never drenched, ewe body condition maintained at 3, clipping 4 - 5 kg clean wool with no black spots.
- Location
- Devon
Welcome
Certainly no expert myself, but have one ley with chicory in, and have not exactly been overwhelmed with the results. But I've since been told it's not suited to wetter climes. Looking at your your location I would guess you're also wetter climate? Maybe there are more suitable varieties, or other species to consider? @Great In Grass is your man for advice on that I'd guess. I have found it fairly resilient under hard grazing, though not sure it's supposed to be grazed too tight.
This would just about describe the system I run and certainly what many other 'easycare' system operators in UK try to do
I tend to scan at 180 to 190% and rear 160%
ewes nearer 62 kg
replacement about the same with hoggets lambed
No tolerance for any problem---if the ewe is handled she goes
Mature animals never drenched, most replacement hoggets never drenched---
Cleanskinned sheep that don't require dagging/shearing/strike preventatives/any mutilations
So I think we are singing from the same hymn sheet
hillman
Member
- Location
- Wicklow Ireland
It was all the rage over here a few years ago , but dear to put in and not lasting meant it soon went by the way side it's like all these crops it depends on amount off area under stock and stocking density