easy care sheep margins

[willy]

Yes switched now on third lambing. So far pretty good, however i have found this lambing slightly more problematic, mainly i think to hot weather!!! Ewes to busy sun bathing after lambing and l have has a few too many mastitis issues( something i have not had since outdoor kambing) but actually not bad really.

No i wouldnt switch back, but i am culling and selecting hard so that the closed ewe flock is hopefully getting better on all aspects.

Also i have tried various rams and havevdecided that obviously replacements are from pure easy cares but everything else is better with a terminal sire, as at the end of the day you need product that is as marketable a possible.

 

[Bones]

Yes switched now on third lambing. So far pretty good, however i have found this lambing slightly more problematic, mainly i think to hot weather!!! Ewes to busy sun bathing after lambing and l have has a few too many mastitis issues( something i have not had since outdoor kambing) but actually not bad really.

No i wouldnt switch back, but i am culling and selecting hard so that the closed ewe flock is hopefully getting better on all aspects.

Also i have tried various rams and havevdecided that obviously replacements are from pure easy cares but everything else is better with a terminal sire, as at the end of the day you need product that is as marketable a possible.

How would you compare them to the mules, ,,ease of lambing,, lambing percentage,,mothering ability,, are you lambing in or out, ,,would they be flighty sorry for nagging you , just thinking of going down the same route

 

[alwayslearning]

Are they as profitable as you hoped?
Do you think margins would increase if you had a wooly easycare breed through increased cull ewe value and better store lamb trade?

 

[S J H]

Yes switched now on third lambing. So far pretty good, however i have found this lambing slightly more problematic, mainly i think to hot weather!!! Ewes to busy sun bathing after lambing and l have has a few too many mastitis issues( something i have not had since outdoor kambing) but actually not bad really.

No i wouldnt switch back, but i am culling and selecting hard so that the closed ewe flock is hopefully getting better on all aspects.

Also i have tried various rams and havevdecided that obviously replacements are from pure easy cares but everything else is better with a terminal sire, as at the end of the day you need product that is as marketable a possible.

I was going to start a thread about lambing in better weather, I seemed have less problems last year when it was colder, but I don't know why.

I'm wondering about lambing mid march next year.

 

[easyram1]

Yes switched now on third lambing. So far pretty good, however i have found this lambing slightly more problematic, mainly i think to hot weather!!! Ewes to busy sun bathing after lambing and l have has a few too many mastitis issues( something i have not had since outdoor kambing) but actually not bad really.

No i wouldnt switch back, but i am culling and selecting hard so that the closed ewe flock is hopefully getting better on all aspects.

Also i have tried various rams and havevdecided that obviously replacements are from pure easy cares but everything else is better with a terminal sire, as at the end of the day you need product that is as marketable a possible.

The good news is that the guy in N Yorks who swapped ewes with you is also really pleased with how your mules did for him so everyone has ended up happy

 

[willy]

@easyram big thanks for putting us in touch with each other.

 

[willy]

How would you compare them to the mules, ,,ease of lambing,, lambing percentage,,mothering ability,, are you lambing in or out, ,,would they be flighty sorry for nagging you , just thinking of going down the same route

Main thing is profitability. The thing you have to do is get your head around lower turnover. Income seems small, yet spend on them is tiny and so profitability is better (compared to old system) Lambing outside on grass with no hard feed has amazed me how good the ewes do, sheep where obviously meant to eat grass!!! No twin lamb problems, no prolapse problems, lost 2 ewes at lambing where as we would usually loose 20ish. Plenty of milk, the list is endless.

No straw no housing no silage no labour very few medicines. And because of this the cost of production is pretty low, however this has to be offset by lower stocking density( although im lucky as we are arable and so ewes can spend winter on stubble turnips or cover crops, to save grass). So in a wet area on a small farm, things may not stack up quite so easily.you have to cut your costs to make to lower output work.

As for breed, I don't think it really matters as long as they are bred for being self sufficient. But I would always go for a shedder as I hate clipping and dagging sheep when there's better things to be doing.

I am working on culling and self replacement selection for increasing output, but this takes time but is only going to add to the bottom line, I do think conventional large lambing flocks inside is going to be a thing of the past, as I don't see lamb prices picking up post brexit.

 

[Tim W]

Main thing is profitability. The thing you have to do is get your head around lower turnover

This is the bit that is very hard for many farmers to grasp ,my turnover is low compared to those farming more ''labour intensive '' systems but my profitability is higher

 

[glensman]

This is the bit that is very hard for many farmers to grasp ,my turnover is low compared to those farming more ''labour intensive '' systems but my profitability is higher

more profit shouldn't be difficult grasp, It's all the facts figures and theory of how that comes about that confuses them.

 

[Romney Girl]

I know what you mean Hilly, but you keep/kept Romneys (?) Do you not think they are easier to keep, with lower inputs, than a mule or terminal crossed ewe flock - without the connotations of the word 'easycare'?

I hope I'm not being a little upstart, breaking in here, when I only joined days ago. But we find that our Romneys don't actually get cast any more frequently than the other breeds. We do get more problems with brambles, not only are they like walking Velcro, they love to eat the bramble leaves, so some can end up well and truly pinned down. We get very little feet problems. If we do get a lame sheep it's more often than not the Texels or Cheviots. Fly is a problem, we are at the moment debating on whether to apply treatment now, or hang on until we can shear next month. We've found that no matter how much you keep them dagged, it's not always dirty wool that the fly goes for. On the odd occasion that we have had fly, they seem to target between the shoulders, at the base of the neck.

 

[easyram1]

In our experience ( admittedly a narrow and selfish viewpoint) there is a significant move towards wool shedding ewes and interestingly also to Romneys ( normally with NZ influence ) Both different but the thing people are looking for is less inputs and particularly labour and the ability to thrive and maintain BCS on grass

 

[MRT]

This is the bit that is very hard for many farmers to grasp ,my turnover is low compared to those farming more ''labour intensive '' systems but my profitability is higher

Is profitability still higher when there is not a premium outlet for ewes though? Your case is different to the commercial man Tim. The best examples to promote your cause are those where the easycare type sheep has replaced traditional woollies on traditional wooly farms

 

[Tim W]

Is profitability still higher when there is not a premium outlet for ewes though? Your case is different to the commercial man Tim. The best examples to promote your cause are those where the easycare type sheep has replaced traditional woollies on traditional wooly farms

My ewes make the same (or more than) other woolly maternal ewes at the abattoir
Our customers come from a variety of farming backgrounds but the one thing they are focused on is profitability and risk reduction via lower inputs. They come to us not only because of the benefits of not having wool but also due to the other low input traits we offer (worm resistant,maternal,proven selection methods & known health status)
Many of our customers look seriously at wooly maternal breeds like the Romney before making a decision as to which route to take...in my opinion you either have no wool or you go for lots of quality wool but in either case underneath you need an efficient maternal animal capable of operating in a low input system

 

[MRT]

My ewes make the same (or more than) other woolly maternal ewes at the abattoir
Our customers come from a variety of farming backgrounds but the one thing they are focused on is profitability and risk reduction via lower inputs. They come to us not only because of the benefits of not having wool but also due to the other low input traits we offer (worm resistant,maternal,proven selection methods & known health status)
Many of our customers look seriously at wooly maternal breeds like the Romney before making a decision as to which route to take...in my opinion you either have no wool or you go for lots of quality wool but in either case underneath you need an efficient maternal animal capable of operating in a low input system

I'm not disputing that, rather pointing out that providing examples where normal () people farming the more labour intensive systems have swapped to yours and they now make more profit at a lower turnover would be a much stronger argument for your type sheep. Using your own flock as a financial example is fine if bottom line adjustments are made taking out both your increased costs of recording and the benefits of all the value added sales.

This is the bit that is very hard for many farmers to grasp ,my turnover is low compared to those farming more ''labour intensive '' systems but my profitability is higher

 

[Tim W]

I'm not disputing that, rather pointing out that providing examples where normal () people farming the more labour intensive systems have swapped to yours and they now make more profit at a lower turnover would be a much stronger argument for your type sheep..

Of course.... We have good examples of this on display material for shows etc & I think on the website (?). Better check when I get home

 

[willy]

I'm not disputing that, rather pointing out that providing examples where normal () people farming the more labour intensive systems have swapped to yours and they now make more profit at a lower turnover would be a much stronger argument for your type sheep. Using your own flock as a financial example is fine if bottom line adjustments are made taking out both your increased costs of recording and the benefits of all the value added sales.

i have found ewes to be worth £10 less, but they last at least 1-2 years longer (if i wasnt culling so hard) than mules for example, also buying them they are £20-40 cheaper than mules in the first place.

 

[Neddy flanders]

Main thing is profitability. The thing you have to do is get your head around lower turnover. Income seems small, yet spend on them is tiny and so profitability is better (compared to old system) Lambing outside on grass with no hard feed has amazed me how good the ewes do, sheep where obviously meant to eat grass!!! No twin lamb problems, no prolapse problems, lost 2 ewes at lambing where as we would usually loose 20ish. Plenty of milk, the list is endless.

No straw no housing no silage no labour very few medicines. And because of this the cost of production is pretty low, however this has to be offset by lower stocking density( although im lucky as we are arable and so ewes can spend winter on stubble turnips or cover crops, to save grass). So in a wet area on a small farm, things may not stack up quite so easily.you have to cut your costs to make to lower output work.

As for breed, I don't think it really matters as long as they are bred for being self sufficient. But I would always go for a shedder as I hate clipping and dagging sheep when there's better things to be doing.

I am working on culling and self replacement selection for increasing output, but this takes time but is only going to add to the bottom line, I do think conventional large lambing flocks inside is going to be a thing of the past, as I don't see lamb prices picking up post brexit.

@willy are the easy cares as flighty as a Masham or quieter like a texel? what about lambing % and value of fat lambs (cross or pure wethers?)

 

[Top Tip.]

@willy are the easy cares as flighty as a Masham or quieter like a texel? what about lambing % and value of fat lambs (cross or pure wethers?)

I wil be the first to admit that I know very little about easy cares but I was involved in a discussion recently where I was told that a local producer who runs all easy cares and takes all his lambs through to fat was told by his local slaughter house that they no longer wanted his lambs,why would this be if what I read on here is true they are supposed to kill out reasonably well.

 

[NZDan]

I wil be the first to admit that I know very little about easy cares but I was involved in a discussion recently where I was told that a local producer who runs all easy cares and takes all his lambs through to fat was told by his local slaughter house that they no longer wanted his lambs,why would this be if what I read on here is true they are supposed to kill out reasonably well.

Did the slaughter hose nae give a reason?

 

[Woolless]

I wil be the first to admit that I know very little about easy cares but I was involved in a discussion recently where I was told that a local producer who runs all easy cares and takes all his lambs through to fat was told by his local slaughter house that they no longer wanted his lambs,why would this be if what I read on here is true they are supposed to kill out reasonably well.

Perhaps he was leaving tails and balls on? A few outlets can be a bit picky about that. I think ABP impose a small penalty for skins with wool cover under a certain length?