Easy ram tups

[easyram1]

How would the Irish Suffolk and Texel sheep compare with their UK counterparts,I know their ewe flock is completely different.

Suffolks indistinguishable. I do not know enough about Texel Pedigrees but according to Sheep Irelands research of UK genetics from breed societies they are basically the same. Having said that individual breeders will always say there is a point of difference. Yes I understand that their ewe flock is very much Terminal Sire X ewes. This obviously is why Teagasc are looking so closely at the maternal qualities of Irish v NZ Suffolks and Texels .

 

[Top Tip.]

Yes ,have bought them too , only times you see those differences in most places would be xmas show or similar , have you ever come àcross luck ? 10-20 p a kg would get you better lambs about £4-12 pounds in a normal situation on 40 kg , diet wether there is muck in the pen - gut fill ,travel distance ,wool cover, wet/ dry fleece lots of factors also different markets all make a difference . In a store sale suffolk x mule lambs will make as much as continental cross lambs this because they have equal profit margin potential to the finisher some of these buyers finish 1000's of lambs

I'm sorry you have lost me as to where luck comes into it. This price phenomenon is definitely not confined to Xmas shows and sales it has been a consistent feature of sales across the north of England and to a lesser extent Scotland right through the spring.

 

[digger64]

I'm sorry you have lost me as to where luck comes into it. This price phenomenon is definitely not confined to Xmas shows and sales it has been a consistent feature of sales across the north of England and to a lesser extent Scotland right through the spring.

When one vendors make over the odds luck comes into it at that level of premium ,what are they going to do with them - stuff them and mount them ?

 

[Top Tip.]

When one vendors make over the odds luck comes into it at that level of premium ,what are they going to do with them - stuff them and mount them ?

I don't understand why you find it so hard to believe that this is actually happening you must lead a very sheltered life. If you don't believe me look up the h and h ,longtown or penrith reports and they will give you some idea of the premium available for these quality lambs.

 

[Mr always wrong]

I don't understand why you find it so hard to believe that this is actually happening you must lead a very sheltered life. If you don't believe me look up the h and h ,longtown or penrith reports and they will give you some idea of the premium available for these quality lambs.

Or for a real eye opener wigton

 

[digger64]

I don't understand why you find it so hard to believe that this is actually happening you must lead a very sheltered life. If you don't believe me look up the h and h ,longtown or penrith reports and they will give you some idea of the premium available for these quality lambs.

I dont dis believe you at all , but I do know how some people get more money for their stock . But thats another
debate I think . If you think nursing beltex sheep is the way forward go for it , but how many can you sell at those levels ?

 

[Top Tip.]

I dont dis believe you at all , but I do know how some people get more money for their stock . But thats another
debate I think . If you think nursing beltex sheep is the way forward go for it , but how many can you sell at those levels ?

I think you can sell as many as you can produce. I don't have beltex sheep but the boys who do tell me they are good to lamb.

 

[Sheep92]

The average flock size over here is small most lads are part time or have cattle as main enterprise so the suffolk cross ewe does fairly well for the guys with small numbers but with a good run off ground, all the bigger lowland flocks are mule/cheviot based or belclare/llyen cross, i would think pedigree suffolk and texels would be almost identical to uk as i gather most of the serious breeders use scottish bred rams etc to their ewes, these overfed rams is a serious issue especially for bigger flocks like ourselves,not so bad if u only have 40 ewes but we run about 40 rams so very interested in these trials and hope it gets sheep farming over here more focused on the future

 

[digger64]

Very relevant, but has 2 sides, and to use the same analogy, British Leyland tried to carry on doing what they wanted rather than improve the product, and we all voted with our feet, in other words for the masses, it's product quality and applicable price. Dyson sells a product that people want, but it's not cheap.

I dont think lamb will ever be cheap but I think it needs to be affordable for alot more people to consider it , the uk industry has been reliant on exports to achieve demand / price for a long time ,this is now possibly going to change, something will have to give either on farm or at retail level , personally I think it will be at our end therefore we have look at different ways of achieveing this , some farmers abroad( not just NZ )will have some ideas ,methods and tools that may help , I would think cherry picking these would be more useful than knocking them IMO
because you see them as a threat to your individual situation

 

[beltextexel]

I dont dis believe you at all , but I do know how some people get more money for their stock . But thats another
debate I think . If you think nursing beltex sheep is the way forward go for it , but how many can you sell at those levels ?

You sound like someone that hasn't tried a beltex tup! We have lambed 1/3 of our texel x flock outside this year (500) and all to beltex tups. They are as easy lambing as any of these nz type sheep. Also put 440 beltex x and texel x hoggs to beltex tups with very few problems.
The premium is definitely there all year round. As above, Wigton or Kirkby Stephen are the marts to look at. We have taken the better end of our lambs to Kirkby this back end and have av. £100 for 37/38 kg lambs.
As far as I'm concerned, my inputs will be as low as most on easy care type systems but I have a much better output.

 

[gatepost]

I dont think lamb will ever be cheap but I think it needs to be affordable for alot more people to consider it , the uk industry has been reliant on exports to achieve demand / price for a long time ,this is now possibly going to change, something will have to give either on farm or at retail level , personally I think it will be at our end therefore we have look at different ways of achieveing this , some farmers abroad( not just NZ )will have some ideas ,methods and tools that may help , I would think cherry picking these would be more useful than knocking them IMO
because you see them as a threat to your individual situation

I think you have a valid point about cherry picking ideas, I don't see the need to rush headlong into one system or another, I have some very workable systems based on easy care sheep on my doorstep, but have also seen some terrible welfare problems, where sheep were literally staved to death (in nos) ''because this is the system''. but stubborn stupidly can affect anyone. The statistics show that we export more than we import, but not by that much, we managed to eat our way through 12 plus million lambs either as a whole or in specific imported bits. that is declining, but still represents a tremendous home market. you say we can only compete on price alone I say we must compete on quality and price, time will tell.

 

[ford4000]

There isnt really a premium they just pay a little more on the correct assumption of a better ko% and leaner carcass the price per kg dw would work out similar o or u grade to the butcher , but they dont worry about costs and extra work on the farm , £ yield per acre or ewe would be more relevant to the farmer

I saw many lambs going for over £100 in the last part of last year, up to ,£130.... which factory would pay anywhere near that ?

 

[digger64]

I saw many lambs going for over £100 in the last part of last year, up to ,£130.... which factory would pay anywhere near that ?

Surely they end up at the factory somehow ?

 

[Dkb]

The average flock size over here is small most lads are part time or have cattle as main enterprise so the suffolk cross ewe does fairly well for the guys with small numbers but with a good run off ground, all the bigger lowland flocks are mule/cheviot based or belclare/llyen cross, i would think pedigree suffolk and texels would be almost identical to uk as i gather most of the serious breeders use scottish bred rams etc to their ewes, these overfed rams is a serious issue especially for bigger flocks like ourselves,not so bad if u only have 40 ewes but we run about 40 rams so very interested in these trials and hope it gets sheep farming over here more focused on the future

All valid points. And I'm not pointing these comments at you. But Unfortunately things aren't going to change until farmers start paying the same for the grass based ones

Or even pay a little less but as it is the farmer usually complains to men about Rams falling apart last year and then goes and buys the biggest fattest ram at this years sale. If anybody was to arrive to a sale with a grass fed ram he would not make anymore than €150

 

[digger64]

I think you have a valid point about cherry picking ideas, I don't see the need to rush headlong into one system or another, I have some very workable systems based on easy care sheep on my doorstep, but have also seen some terrible welfare problems, where sheep were literally staved to death (in nos) ''because this is the system''. but stubborn stupidly can affect anyone. The statistics show that we export more than we import, but not by that much, we managed to eat our way through 12 plus million lambs either as a whole or in specific imported bits. that is declining, but still represents a tremendous home market. you say we can only compete on price alone I say we must compete on quality and price, time will tell.

I agree but we are not in a position to stop the imports (but that could change )so we are going to have to look recaptureing our own market and getting home consumption up alot , I dont see premium quality lambs through a butchers shop doing this nowadays much as I would like to be wrong , surely sensibly priced /size R3 lambs produced at reasonable cost would be an easier more sustainable way to achieve this than a high quality /high input treadmill when financial/labour resources are possibly scarce
l

I think you have a valid point about cherry picking ideas, I don't see the need to rush headlong into one system or another, I have some very workable systems based on easy care sheep on my doorstep, but have also seen some terrible welfare problems, where sheep were literally staved to death (in nos) ''because this is the system''. but stubborn stupidly can affect anyone. The statistics show that we export more than we import, but not by that much, we managed to eat our way through 12 plus million lambs either as a whole or in specific imported bits. that is declining, but still represents a tremendous home market. you say we can only compete on price alone I say we must compete on quality and price, time will tell.

 

[digger64]

You sound like someone that hasn't tried a beltex tup! We have lambed 1/3 of our texel x flock outside this year (500) and all to beltex tups. They are as easy lambing as any of these nz type sheep. Also put 440 beltex x and texel x hoggs to beltex tups with very few problems.
The premium is definitely there all year round. As above, Wigton or Kirkby Stephen are the marts to look at. We have taken the better end of our lambs to Kirkby this back end and have av. £100 for 37/38 kg lambs.
As far as I'm concerned, my inputs will be as low as most on easy care type systems but I have a much better output.

If everybody had them would you get that ? I think this is a regional thing and its good that it works for you could you run these sheep where people run swales etc ?

 

[Top Tip.]

Suffolks indistinguishable. I do not know enough about Texel Pedigrees but according to Sheep Irelands research of UK genetics from breed societies they are basically the same. Having said that individual breeders will always say there is a point of difference. Yes I understand that their ewe flock is very much Terminal Sire X ewes. This obviously is why Teagasc are looking so closely at the maternal qualities of Irish v NZ Suffolks and Texels .

At the risk of incurring your wrath...again I would say that this is a scenario where the NZ type would come into its own on these terminal type ewes where they were both bringing something to the party.

 

[beltextexel]

If everybody had them would you get that ? I think this is a regional thing and its good that it works for you could you run these sheep where people run swales etc ?

Probably not if everyone did the same. I guess it relies on folk producing these run of the mill lambs to make the quality lambs stand out. It is fairly reliant on the export trade as most of the lambs will go back to holland/Belgium.
I'm not sure how they would do spending a winter on the fells, probably wouldn't do that well at all. We do send 300 on to a hill from April to October and then they spend the rest of the year in the lowlands on turnips or at grass. They do ok but not as well as our sheep that stay at home.

 

[Sheep92]

All valid points. And I'm not pointing these comments at you. But Unfortunately things aren't going to change until farmers start paying the same for the grass based ones

Or even pay a little less but as it is the farmer usually complains to men about Rams falling apart last year and then goes and buys the biggest fattest ram at this years sale. If anybody was to arrive to a sale with a grass fed ram he would not make anymore than €150

Definitely, 100% happens over here the whole time, we always find the rams that arent over done and that "arent good enough for the premier sale" always do better for us and produce lambs every bit as good as the big flashy tups, things wont change until the mindset of majority of farmers changes

 

[easyram1]

Definitely, 100% happens over here the whole time, we always find the rams that arent over done and that "arent good enough for the premier sale" always do better for us and produce lambs every bit as good as the big flashy tups, things wont change until the mindset of majority of farmers changes

I think the real issue re grass reared rams is that they will never look the part in an auction sale because at whatever level of sale be it a Premier Sale in Ireland or Society Sale in UK or specialist ram sales such as Builth/Kelso or even your local weekly mart the buyers are inevitably drawn to the biggest and fattest ( proof of my theory is they always make most money) and so would not even stop to ask why your grass fed rams are smaller etc etc. The other disadvantage of auction sales is the lack of contact between buyer and seller as the auctioneer is always in the middle - I bet most vendors at an average ram sale do not even know the name of the purchaser of their stock. I think the steady increase in sales of grass fed rams over here is a few years ahead of you in Ireland but I am sure it is the trend and your heavy use of Teagasc advisors and discussion groups in all sectors will surely add to the pace of change.