Economies of Scale....apparently.

[Overby]

Tell your pop he will make far more money with very little work by letting the small fields to horsey people then he ever will farming it, sell them some bales of hay as well & you will be quids in!

I know this, you know this....Christ knows what he knows. Just walks off in a grump.

 

[BrianV]

I know this, you know this....Christ knows what he knows. Just walks off in a grump.

Trouble is we older generation are very set in our ways as both my sons will testify & we hate change, maybe try & persuade him to do one as a trial, young smart girls on horses pleading for hay can be quite entertaining tell him.

 

[shumungus]

Did you read the original post? It was after opinions, no whining, further info came later when the 'work for the sake of it' perverts, with no understanding of what was originally asked, started tugging on their Wrangler clad testes in indignation. No offence.

Yes your first post asked for an opinion and when members offered theirs, those that you didn't agree with were greeted with your whining and protestations of how hard done by you were and it became evident that you were seeking solace in an internet forum to which only one side of the argument was being offered.
Your whining has descended into downright disrespect for your father by your comments and emoij's upon his waited on and hoped for death. The fact that you have changed your Avatar name from M.J. Dboor hints that you are trying to disassociate yourself from your derogatory comments of your father in case they come back to bite you. Everyone has been helpful and polite in their replies to you on this subject as it is very common to have friction and disagreement between generations and certain sympathy is felt for you. What you wished to achieve by putting this topic on here in this manner has only been an attempt for you to get sympathy and have your ego stroked, it will have no bearing on the present situation as anyone who has suggested a solution that is not in direct compliance with you gets shot down. I stand by my comments, I think before I type.

There are a few Elephants in the room that need to be named.

Your Father has accrued 700 acres of farmland, he must have an idea of something.
He is still actively working and making business decisions at 80, is this because he doesn't have someone he could trust to make those decisions or do the work?
You obviously have no say or control of this 6 acre matter, if this is the case its simply not up to you.
You have reached middle age thinking 'Daddy's holding me back' the whole time but haven't seen fit to strike out on your own.
The comments on an internet forum about your fathers death regardless of how bad your relationship is, are shameful.
I fear no matter what suggestions are put forward to you if they don't fit your agenda you will reject them, so what's the point?
And on that note methinks I will retire from this thread.
No offence.

 

[czechmate]

If the OP is right, why doesn't he get rid of all his fields except the biggest one? Then he'll be making a fortune!

for cropping, that’s about what I’ve done. For arable farming 60 ha parcels are just nice for getting on.
1.3 ha cereals

 

[Flatlander]

for cropping, that’s about what I’ve done. For arable farming 60 ha parcels are just nice for getting on.
1.3 ha cereals

Short sighted giving up even small parcels of land just to be the big dog that only wants the juicy bone. Many well established farms were started with smaller field and those fields often made better money when managed as a stand alone field rather than lumped in with the rest. many a young pup want to run free in a big field but forgets who got them there.

 

[czechmate]

Short sighted giving up even small parcels of land just to be the big dog that only wants the juicy bone. Many well established farms were started with smaller field and those fields often made better money when managed as a stand alone field rather than lumped in with the rest. many a young pup want to run free in a big field but forgets who got them there.

Yes, I was talking about cropping. Easy for me as I have cows and graze small fields. Here, there is so much wildlife small fields really are a disaster for cereals

 

[Happy at it]

Yet these tiny fields are apparently vital to our business and we spend endless hours wasting time in them . Tragic really.

Splitting a family run operation is so simple........ Head down and wait til he dies.

Some chance. He'll be ⚰ by then

The only thing tragic is the relationship you have with your father,and what it's done to you to make you think and act the way you are in your posts. What have you been doing for the past 30 years that you couldn't have got past the squabbling that most sons do with their fathers in their teens?

 

[Flat 10]

Yes your first post asked for an opinion and when members offered theirs, those that you didn't agree with were greeted with your whining and protestations of how hard done by you were and it became evident that you were seeking solace in an internet forum to which only one side of the argument was being offered.
Your whining has descended into downright disrespect for your father by your comments and emoij's upon his waited on and hoped for death. The fact that you have changed your Avatar name from M.J. Dboor hints that you are trying to disassociate yourself from your derogatory comments of your father in case they come back to bite you. Everyone has been helpful and polite in their replies to you on this subject as it is very common to have friction and disagreement between generations and certain sympathy is felt for you. What you wished to achieve by putting this topic on here in this manner has only been an attempt for you to get sympathy and have your ego stroked, it will have no bearing on the present situation as anyone who has suggested a solution that is not in direct compliance with you gets shot down. I stand by my comments, I think before I type.

There are a few Elephants in the room that need to be named.

Your Father has accrued 700 acres of farmland, he must have an idea of something.
He is still actively working and making business decisions at 80, is this because he doesn't have someone he could trust to make those decisions or do the work?
You obviously have no say or control of this 6 acre matter, if this is the case its simply not up to you.
You have reached middle age thinking 'Daddy's holding me back' the whole time but haven't seen fit to strike out on your own.
The comments on an internet forum about your fathers death regardless of how bad your relationship is, are shameful.
I fear no matter what suggestions are put forward to you if they don't fit your agenda you will reject them, so what's the point?
And on that note methinks I will retire from this thread.
No offence.

You make some valid points. However the OPs dad may have started with a 1000ac he might not have built a thing. Also I don’t much care for parts of the OPs attitude but I don’t understand everyone getting sanctimonious about this 6ac, I think the OP is absolutely right put it in stewardship.

 

[Overby]

Yes your first post asked for an opinion and when members offered theirs, those that you didn't agree with were greeted with your whining and protestations of how hard done by you were and it became evident that you were seeking solace in an internet forum to which only one side of the argument was being offered.
Your whining has descended into downright disrespect for your father by your comments and emoij's upon his waited on and hoped for death. The fact that you have changed your Avatar name from M.J. Dboor hints that you are trying to disassociate yourself from your derogatory comments of your father in case they come back to bite you. Everyone has been helpful and polite in their replies to you on this subject as it is very common to have friction and disagreement between generations and certain sympathy is felt for you. What you wished to achieve by putting this topic on here in this manner has only been an attempt for you to get sympathy and have your ego stroked, it will have no bearing on the present situation as anyone who has suggested a solution that is not in direct compliance with you gets shot down. I stand by my comments, I think before I type.

There are a few Elephants in the room that need to be named.

Your Father has accrued 700 acres of farmland, he must have an idea of something.
He is still actively working and making business decisions at 80, is this because he doesn't have someone he could trust to make those decisions or do the work?
You obviously have no say or control of this 6 acre matter, if this is the case its simply not up to you.
You have reached middle age thinking 'Daddy's holding me back' the whole time but haven't seen fit to strike out on your own.
The comments on an internet forum about your fathers death regardless of how bad your relationship is, are shameful.
I fear no matter what suggestions are put forward to you if they don't fit your agenda you will reject them, so what's the point?
And on that note methinks I will retire from this thread.
No offence.

Nope,

Yes your first post asked for an opinion and when members offered theirs, those that you didn't agree with were greeted with your whining and protestations of how hard done by you were and it became evident that you were seeking solace in an internet forum to which only one side of the argument was being offered.
Your whining has descended into downright disrespect for your father by your comments and emoij's upon his waited on and hoped for death. The fact that you have changed your Avatar name from M.J. Dboor hints that you are trying to disassociate yourself from your derogatory comments of your father in case they come back to bite you. Everyone has been helpful and polite in their replies to you on this subject as it is very common to have friction and disagreement between generations and certain sympathy is felt for you. What you wished to achieve by putting this topic on here in this manner has only been an attempt for you to get sympathy and have your ego stroked, it will have no bearing on the present situation as anyone who has suggested a solution that is not in direct compliance with you gets shot down. I stand by my comments, I think before I type.

There are a few Elephants in the room that need to be named.

Your Father has accrued 700 acres of farmland, he must have an idea of something.
He is still actively working and making business decisions at 80, is this because he doesn't have someone he could trust to make those decisions or do the work?
You obviously have no say or control of this 6 acre matter, if this is the case its simply not up to you.
You have reached middle age thinking 'Daddy's holding me back' the whole time but haven't seen fit to strike out on your own.
The comments on an internet forum about your fathers death regardless of how bad your relationship is, are shameful.
I fear no matter what suggestions are put forward to you if they don't fit your agenda you will reject them, so what's the point?
And on that note methinks I will retire from this thread.
No offence.

Nope,I haven't rejected any points of view, I asked opinion and have enjoyed reading the replies. There will always be differences , and I never reply with vitriol to anyone. There will be many on here I suspect who are like the old boy and quite happy to make jobs last as they enjoy them, and so what if it breaks even (ours doesn't BTW). as long as they're happy. The point is why should I / others have to do it when I don't want to and don't agree with it? Foolish arrogance is unforgivable. If we each did our own bit, fair enough, but we're 'not allowed'. Without my input, £ and the rest, a few years back there is no business anyway. Yet I'm meant to jump into line? My name's on all the business assets already for reasons which must be obvious?

I feel i may have touched a nerve? All are welcome to their own opinions, and I think my follow on points have been proved unreservedly here!

Surely, unless an individual is extremely bereft of humour, anyone can read the spirit my comments are meant in. Nobody 'actually' wishes bereavement etc, how many of you have said 'it'll be different when the old bugger's gone' in the past?

A query re the definition of EOS has yielded so much more.

Thanks to all for your input, this has proved very worthwhile.

 

[Overby]

The only thing tragic is the relationship you have with your father,and what it's done to you to make you think and act the way you are in your posts. What have you been doing for the past 30 years that you couldn't have got past the squabbling that most sons do with their fathers in their teens?

How would you deal with someone who won't talk and just gets in a huff and dissappears on his tractor? Over and over again. I'm hardly going to walk away having sunk my ££££££££ into the business?

 

[Nearly]

Once word gets around that you've turned land down or given land up, the amount you get offered reduces.
Landlords and agents like busy fools.

 

[Happy at it]

How would you deal with someone who won't talk and just gets in a huff and dissappears on his tractor? Over and over again. I'm hardly going to walk away having sunk my ££££££££ into the business?

Either shake your head and smile then do it your way or bite your lip and do it his. I know your not going to walk but surely he must have some positive traits or you wouldn't have stayed with it for so long. Focus on them.

 

[Overby]

Either shake your head and smile then do it your way or bite your lip and do it his. I know your not going to walk but surely he must have some positive traits or you wouldn't have stayed with it for so long. Focus on them.

Pretty much what happens, I asked the original point on EOS after another fraught day, the thread soon went off topic!

 

[TheTallGuy]

Economy of scale means whatever is implied by the context in which it is used. There is a presumption that it means bigger/more gives better economy, but it is far more nuanced than that. For every unique situation there will be an "optimum economy of scale" & that should not be conflated with optimum economy for profit. For a given situation, it may be that by cropping the smaller bits of land that seem to be "not worth while" allows hidden "economies" occur. For instance it if there are large fixed costs such as salaries or machinery finance, spreading those costs over more crop lowers the cost per unit of crop. Whether that is financially wise is another matter entirely as it needs to take a "whole system" view as to whether that economy outweighs any variable costs attracted....

 

[mezz]

How would you deal with someone who won't talk and just gets in a huff and dissappears on his tractor? Over and over again. I'm hardly going to walk away having sunk my ££££££££ into the business?

Have you thought about mediation? Any partnership can be difficult with an even number of partners. Is there a third person you could bring in when you disagree? An uncle, family friend or accountant? Building relationships is important, when's the last time you made your father laugh out loud?

It seems you and your father have different goals and this is the source of the conflict. Have you written down your goals for yourself and the farm for the next 5-10 years? If you share this with your father and ask him to do the same, then try and find what you have in common, so have shared goals, it will be a lot easier to resolve disputes.

Have you got a succession plan for the farm? Not so much when assets are transferred, but when control is? Your profile states that you're a mixed farmer, would your father consider transferring some of the non arable activities over to you entirely?

 

[Overby]

Have you thought about mediation? Any partnership can be difficult with an even number of partners. Is there a third person you could bring in when you disagree? An uncle, family friend or accountant? Building relationships is important, when's the last time you made your father laugh out loud?

It seems you and your father have different goals and this is the source of the conflict. Have you written down your goals for yourself and the farm for the next 5-10 years? If you share this with your father and ask him to do the same, then try and find what you have in common, so have shared goals, it will be a lot easier to resolve disputes.

Have you got a succession plan for the farm? Not so much when assets are transferred, but when control is? Your profile states that you're a mixed farmer, would your father consider transferring some of the non arable activities over to you entirely?

!00% truth here. We've tried. The mediators called a halt and asked him to leave as he was so rude,

 

[Flatlander]

!00% truth here. We've tried. The mediators called a halt and asked him to leave as he was so rude,

not surprised, if I was called in a by a mediator by a son that was having a hissy fit over 6 acres I’d be pretty rude too. Your in a personal power struggle with your father and 6 acre is what your hiding behind. Ffs go get the field drilled and gain some respect from your father and other in the ares as this has been going on for some time by the sounds of it. How are you going to feel when he has a heart attack or stroke during an argument. I’d assume at your age you have Kids. Set an example.

 

[Overby]

not surprised, if I was called in a by a mediator by a son that was having a hissy fit over 6 acres I’d be pretty rude too. Your in a personal power struggle with your father and 6 acre is what your hiding behind. Ffs go get the field drilled and gain some respect from your father and other in the ares as this has been going on for some time by the sounds of it. How are you going to feel when he has a heart attack or stroke during an argument. I’d assume at your age you have Kids. Set an example.

Respect is earnt. It's not a right. It's a very deluded individual, no matter their age, who wakes up convinced they 'deserve respect'.

We were advised to use mediators due to 'business issues' ie keeping it viable, and I've been handed nothing for free here.

This question re EOS was after another futile conversation re cashflow. I dont want to waste time drilling a field I know is going to lose money? Which I know this one will. And I'll have the financers on my case as to why I'm letting this nonsense happen again. Not much fun following a plan that you know won't make money before you start.

Interesting that one member suggests a mediator, whilst another finds that deplorable......the beauty of debate .

Each to their own though.

This could go on and on...so I'll leave it now, I thank you all for your replies, VERY insightful, on MANY levels.

 

[Oliveau]

If he’s that age then you need to show some gratitude for the years of work he’s done to get to 700 acres. Yes you have worked but those acres didn’t come from thin air. The way your see those three acres is not the way he did when building up the farm. Turn your bitterness fir those acre into a relationship building block. Get it planted first, try something new in that piece,use it for seed production for your own use, anything but a bitching point to disrespect your 80 year old father on a public forum. At 47 you should have learn by now thats his way of doing things. my dad died 18 months ago and we never saw eye to eye fir some things but I sure miss the old bugger,chances are your there with a sizeable block of land to farm because of him. This is more of a power struggle than 3 acres.

A sensible post with well made points

 

[Overby]

A sensible post with well made points

Apart from the background detail which I diidnt really want to get into whereby the old boy cant work on his own or he'd go pop Family supported him years ago but when he went alone it didn't work out and he needed bailed out. The bank, LL etc deal with me and me alone now, and have done for years, for these reasons. I'm not sure this has got across. If I blindly follow the old fella, we have no business......I was merely seeking opinion after another futile argument.
I cant believe anyone would say 'you must follow your elders as a mark of respect, even if you go bust'.

This drivel that keeps being repeated re 'the land he's giving you' is tiresome, without me revamping things years ago we'd have nothing, it was all about to be lost.and we've added significant acreage in recent times, why do I add acres to cede control of them to someone else? If you read the thread, most of this info came in answer to various questions, the original post was solely about EOS, no whining.


That genuinely is me done here now.

Thanks again.