Electric cars long term owners

[Exfarmer]

Probably to make sure there is going to be enough supply?

and this is just in a the very local area, get a street full of electric cars and the local sub station will have to be graded!

 

[dave mountain]

You have forgotten that Ice are only 30 %efficient in converting fuel to energy unless you can use the waste heat

No I haven't at all, though 40+% is more typical for diesel cars or half decent gensets once alternator losses are included

 

[Exfarmer]

There is a reason Germany produces more, and until quite recently the UK were paying for a good portion of it. I agree solar is a good idea but I'm not for it it if it's not viable without subsidy, so I'm happy that subsidies are ending. Mainland Europe farmers seem to have been a lot better at rinsing the subsidies than the UK, just look at the amount of AD plants, solar farms etc.

What I meant by basically free, was that Australian land prices are nothing when compared to UK

Dave, Solar has not been subsidised for several years! It is now becoming possible to do small scale schemes like I do ( up to 250Kw ) without subsidy

 

[Lakesdigger]

No I haven't at all, though 40+% is more typical for diesel cars or half decent gensets once alternator losses are included

And don't forget how energy dense 1 litre of petrol or diesel is. ICE may well be fairly inefficient compared to a battery and motor but don't forget the losses involved in generation of leccy, cabling, transformers, charging etc. The lack of efficiency of ICE almost doesn't matter when the fuel is so cheap for the amount of energy you get.
End of the day when/if it's cheaper for everyone to have a leccy car they will. Its ok for those at the mo who due to tax benefits through business find they are cheaper but what are they replacing a fiesta or a range rover?

 

[Lincsman]

Dave, Solar has not been subsidised for several years! It is now becoming possible to do small scale schemes like I do ( up to 250Kw ) without subsidy

What is the pay back time now?

 

[Exfarmer]

What? No there are tons of subsidies for the fossil fuel industry, the UK alone provides direct subsidies on exploration, development and tax cuts that amounts to more than 10,5 billion! Renewables doesn't even get a tenth of that...

These 10,5bn is one of the biggest fossil fuel subsidies in Europe by the way.

There is much smoke and mirrors in calculating Tax breaks and subsidies. I would not trust any figures out there.
Any company or investor in any sector of business of any sort is entitled to deduct the cost of investment over a time period to recoups initial investment before the investment is reckoned to return a profit. How this is assessed varies in the eyes of beholder.
Many of these so called subsidies added in to the figures are hypothetical figures such as the cost to the NHS of treating patients suffering from lung disease etc.
It may well be fair to add costs that soociety has too pick up , but it is very much the length of a piece of string

 

[Exfarmer]

What is the pay back time now?

I would guess if you are doing it for yourself with imports costing 25p + for most you would be looking to 4 years or less for the correctly sized array

 

[Lincsman]

I would guess if you are doing it for yourself with imports costing 25p + for most you would be looking to 4 years or less for the correctly sized array

This based on what is generated entirely replacing bought in power and non fed into the grid?

 

[dave mountain]

Dave, Solar has not been subsidised for several years! It is now becoming possible to do small scale schemes like I do ( up to 250Kw ) without subsidy

That doesn't change that much of the solar generation capacity on mainland Europe was built using EU subsidies. I could be wrong but I am fairly sure the solar farms that signed up to feed in tariffs for X number of years are still receiving subsidies, though they obviously won't be renewed.

 

[ollie989898]

There is much smoke and mirrors in calculating Tax breaks and subsidies. I would not trust any figures out there.
Any company or investor in any sector of business of any sort is entitled to deduct the cost of investment over a time period to recoups initial investment before the investment is reckoned to return a profit. How this is assessed varies in the eyes of beholder.
Many of these so called subsidies added in to the figures are hypothetical figures such as the cost to the NHS of treating patients suffering from lung disease etc.
It may well be fair to add costs that soociety has too pick up , but it is very much the length of a piece of string

NHS costs are averaged over the entire country and every patient so are representative of what the real cost would be if you like but not every trust would necessarily be able to meet them- some might find it more or less costly.

One thing the government is good at is collecting hordes of data.

 

[Exfarmer]

This based on what is generated entirely replacing bought in power and non fed into the grid?

Without doing the full exercise, I was thinking 50% export. Not sure what the situation is for sub 30Kw exports opis now though. Currently you will certainly get 8p for the exports

 

[Exfarmer]

That doesn't change that much of the solar generation capacity on mainland Europe was built using EU subsidies. I could be wrong but I am fairly sure the solar farms that signed up to feed in tariffs for X number of years are still receiving subsidies, though they obviously won't be renewed.

Fits will be paid ( I hope ) for the contracted 20 years, but all the new installs are reliant on the open market. Sea based wind I believe still has a guaranteed base price, I think but less than the 9p guaranteed to Hinckley

 

[HatsOff]

white diesel costs 12p/kwh, diesel cars approx 40% efficient, so works out at 30p/kwh of output.

electricity costs 22p/kwh, lets assume EVs are 100% (they arent quite) EV needs 50% more energy to move as full electric vehicles are approx 50% heavier, so works out at 33p for the equivalent output.

Converting diesel to kWh is tricky. Too much is lost as heat.

EVs are often quoted with miles per kWh.

Average EVs will do between 3-4miles per kWh, so it's more like 7p/mile.

Diesel engine at 50mpg and fuel at £6.80/gallon gives 13.6p/mile

 

[dave mountain]

Converting diesel to kWh is tricky. Too much is lost as heat.

EVs are often quoted with miles per kWh.

Average EVs will do between 3-4miles per kWh, so it's more like 7p/mile.

Diesel engine at 50mpg and fuel at £6.80/gallon gives 13.6p/mile

Not that tricky. Diesel contains roughly 10kWh, then usually approx 60% is lost as heat, so approx 4kwh mechanical energy in a car or approx 4kwh electrical energy from a genset per L. Obviously there are alternator losses in the genset but these are balanced out by it running at a more constant speed/load than a car

 

[HatsOff]

Not that tricky. Diesel contains roughly 10kWh, then usually approx 60% is lost as heat, so approx 4kwh mechanical energy in a car or approx 4kwh electrical energy from a genset per L. Obviously there are alternator losses in the genset but these are balanced out by it running at a more constant speed/load than a car

Trickier than just comparing miles/kWh and mpg - both of which are objectively tested.

I actually thought that was a recent post but now realise it was halfway through the thread. Sorry.

 

[yellow belly]

once more than 50% of the cars on the road are electric the tax diesel and petrol cars will go up ensuring that electric cars are cheaper

 

[Paddington]

Fuel and excise duty must be replaced with new tax, MPs say

The UK will be left with a £35bn "black hole" as motorists switch to electric cars, says Transport committee.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Still Farming]

https://www.facebook.com/257952570918079/posts/5121801771199777

 

[Poorbuthappy]

https://www.facebook.com/257952570918079/posts/5121801771199777

Well I don't know where they are looking, but there's fast chargers in Devon as low as 25p/kwh, (50kw charger), and plenty around 40p, yet they say the cheapest is 63p?

 

[dave mountain]

once more than 50% of the cars on the road are electric the tax diesel and petrol cars will go up ensuring that electric cars are cheaper

that is very wishful thinking. i think the opposite will happen and they will tax electric cars, they need the revenue from somewhere. look what happened to all the tax benefits for hybrids as soon as they started getting popular....