Electric cars long term owners

[Bloders]

There was an interesting programme on radio 4 over the last day or two. I only caught the last 10 minutes or so of it.
Guy with an existing vauxhaul Corsa (petrol)
Questions ultimately answered were
1) how much per mile is fuel on an electric version (7 ppm) and the existing petrol version (17.5ppm) A saving of 10ppm (considering the reduction in tax on petrol and the increase in electric costs.
2) What is the carbon foot print of a new electric (12,000 kg) and petrol corsa (6,000kg)
3) If i buy a new car to save the planet (ie there is nothing wrong with my current car) how many miles do i need to drive to have a net reduction of Co2 - 300,000 miles.
4) If my car is broke and i need a new car, how many miles do i need to drive to have a net reduction in Co2 on the new electric car over the petrol - this was really low like 19,000 miles or so.

It considered where our electric comes from (a mix f renewables and hydrocarbons)

I might try and find it on iPlayer to listen to it properly.

 

[ajd132]

Nobody who has done physics beyond GCSE can take that seriously:

View attachment 1028321

If they'd used E=1/2mv2 then maybe..... And even the they are asking they weigh the same (engines and gearboxes are heavy).

Some of that is true (ALL travel involves emissions, even walking) but most is out of date. The whole subject is changing very fast.

The EU are legislating to force vehicle battery recycling (it can be done, it's just currently cheaper not to).

This is a fair current summary:

View attachment 1028324View attachment 1028325View attachment 1028326View attachment 1028327View attachment 1028328View attachment 1028332View attachment 1028329View attachment 1028330View attachment 1028331

Well done for finding a credible source and not something off Katie Hopkins Facebook site

 

[7610 super q]

Well done for finding a credible source and not something off Katie Hopkins Facebook site

She has a Facebook site ?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

There was an interesting programme on radio 4 over the last day or two. I only caught the last 10 minutes or so of it.
Guy with an existing vauxhaul Corsa (petrol)
Questions ultimately answered were
1) how much per mile is fuel on an electric version (7 ppm) and the existing petrol version (17.5ppm) A saving of 10ppm (considering the reduction in tax on petrol and the increase in electric costs.
2) What is the carbon foot print of a new electric (12,000 kg) and petrol corsa (6,000kg)
3) If i buy a new car to save the planet (ie there is nothing wrong with my current car) how many miles do i need to drive to have a net reduction of Co2 - 300,000 miles.
4) If my car is broke and i need a new car, how many miles do i need to drive to have a net reduction in Co2 on the new electric car over the petrol - this was really low like 19,000 miles or so.

It considered where our electric comes from (a mix f renewables and hydrocarbons)

I might try and find it on iPlayer to listen to it properly.

The BBC aren't exactly reliable these days either, sadly. Sounds close to what I've read in technical documents though. For your point 4, the document I shared above mentions a figure of 16,000 miles but I suspect that:

a) It varies significantly between vehicles (several on here have commented on the variable EV km/kWh results and ICE fuel efficiency varies greatly)

b) EV's are improving significantly all the time whereas it's been ages since ICE fuel efficiency changed much. (My Diesel Maestro van averaged 65mpg in 1991!)

The big factors will be:

1. Renewable %age in UK power mix

2. Increasing EV km/kWh

3. Increasing battery storage density

 

[TheTallGuy]

The BBC aren't exactly reliable these days either, sadly. Sounds close to what I've read in technical documents though. For your point 4, the document I shared above mentions a figure of 16,000 miles but I suspect that:

a) It varies significantly between vehicles (several on here have commented on the range of EV km/kWh results and ICE fuel efficiency varies greatly)

b) EV's are improving significantly all the time whereas it's been ages since ICE fuel efficiency changed much. (My Diesel Maestro van averaged 65mpg in 1991!)

The big factors will be:

1. Renewable %age in UK power mix

2. Increasing EV km/kWh

3. Increasing battery storage density

Fuel economy has been somewhat hampered by emissions controls and heavier cars due to enhanced safety requirements.

 

[ollie989898]

There was an interesting programme on radio 4 over the last day or two. I only caught the last 10 minutes or so of it.
Guy with an existing vauxhaul Corsa (petrol)
Questions ultimately answered were
1) how much per mile is fuel on an electric version (7 ppm) and the existing petrol version (17.5ppm) A saving of 10ppm (considering the reduction in tax on petrol and the increase in electric costs.
2) What is the carbon foot print of a new electric (12,000 kg) and petrol corsa (6,000kg)
3) If i buy a new car to save the planet (ie there is nothing wrong with my current car) how many miles do i need to drive to have a net reduction of Co2 - 300,000 miles.
4) If my car is broke and i need a new car, how many miles do i need to drive to have a net reduction in Co2 on the new electric car over the petrol - this was really low like 19,000 miles or so.

It considered where our electric comes from (a mix f renewables and hydrocarbons)

I might try and find it on iPlayer to listen to it properly.

The manufacturing of vehicles is the biggest environmental impact by miles. Just the amount of water used to paint cars is off the scale.

One of the most powerful things I read on the web the other day was: 'We can't possibly consume our way out of this emissions problem. Electric cars or McNasty burgers are just ways of protecting the interests of companies, not the interests of your grandchildren'.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

There was an interesting programme on radio 4 over the last day or two. I only caught the last 10 minutes or so of it.
Guy with an existing vauxhaul Corsa (petrol)
Questions ultimately answered were
1) how much per mile is fuel on an electric version (7 ppm) and the existing petrol version (17.5ppm) A saving of 10ppm (considering the reduction in tax on petrol and the increase in electric costs.
2) What is the carbon foot print of a new electric (12,000 kg) and petrol corsa (6,000kg)
3) If i buy a new car to save the planet (ie there is nothing wrong with my current car) how many miles do i need to drive to have a net reduction of Co2 - 300,000 miles.
4) If my car is broke and i need a new car, how many miles do i need to drive to have a net reduction in Co2 on the new electric car over the petrol - this was really low like 19,000 miles or so.

It considered where our electric comes from (a mix f renewables and hydrocarbons)

I might try and find it on iPlayer to listen to it properly.

Point 3 is a bit of a nonsense because that ice car that has nothing wrong with it is not thrown away, but filters down the s/h system - eventually replacing someone's car that is fit for the scrap heap. Often replacing a car with worse emmissions too.
This point was made on another R4 program.

 

[TheTallGuy]

Point 3 is a bit of a nonsense because that ice car that has nothing wrong with it is not thrown away, but filters down the s/h system - eventually replacing someone's car that is fit for the scrap heap. Often replacing a car with worse emmissions too.
This point was made on another R4 program.

Not necessarily - you only have to look at the various scrappage schemes in operation that are removing perfectly serviceable cars from circulation.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Not necessarily - you only have to look at the various scrappage schemes in operation that are removing perfectly serviceable cars from circulation.

Currently?

 

[TheTallGuy]

Currently?

Yes, lots of manufacturers are offering their own scrappage schemes as does the London Mayor

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Yes, lots of manufacturers are offering their own scrappage schemes as does the London Mayor

Would have to be pretty generous to draw anything but those that would be better off the road anyway. S/h car values are very strong.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

And by "lots of manufacturers" it seems you mean Kia and Renault?

 

[TheTallGuy]

And by "lots of manufacturers" it seems you mean Kia and Renault?

Ford, Hyundai, Mazda & Toyota are also offering scrappage.

Would have to be pretty generous to draw anything but those that would be better off the road anyway. S/h car values are very strong.

Second hand car values are strong because cars keep getting scrapped despite being perfectly serviceable, plus the slow throughput of new cars into the system from a combination of Covid effects and chip shortages. Go into a Ford dealer with a 10 year old car for part exchange and it will almost certainly be scrapped - that car would be perfectly suitable for someone doing 20-30 miles a week picking up the kids from school & shopping. Taking that car off the road isn't going to save emissions because the the next 10 years of emissions from that vehicle will still be lower than the manufacturing and running emissions of a new one!

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Ford, Hyundai, Mazda & Toyota are also offering scrappage.


Second hand car values are strong because cars keep getting scrapped despite being perfectly serviceable, plus the slow throughput of new cars into the system from a combination of Covid effects and chip shortages. Go into a Ford dealer with a 10 year old car for part exchange and it will almost certainly be scrapped - that car would be perfectly suitable for someone doing 20-30 miles a week picking up the kids from school & shopping. Taking that car off the road isn't going to save emissions because the the next 10 years of emissions from that vehicle will still be lower than the manufacturing and running emissions of a new one!

Agreed on your last point.
Autotrader saying just Kia and renault currently

 

[john 650]

I’m running a ranger and golf. The ranger is very much a farm truck. It looks like one, it smells like one. It tows a 3t trailer regularly. It has everything thrown in the back such as oil drums, feed etc. My ‘car’ is a golf which I use for none farming stuff such as going out, school runs, trips away etc. my other half has a company car. It makes sense for me to replace my two vehicles when they finish their leases this oct with a single vehicle that can tow 3t legally, is 4wd for farm tracks and across fields etc but also I can use as a car. If I could find a full electric 4wd that can tow for around £650/month on a business lease then I’m interested.

I assume you have a deposit down on the Rivian? Sounds like just what you need.

Rivian R1T review: new electric pickup truck driven

There aren’t many electric full size pickups on sale today, but Rivian has stepped up to plug this gap in the market with its revolutionary new R1T.

www.carwow.co.uk

 

[Highashgrange]

I assume you have a deposit down on the Rivian? Sounds like just what you need.

Rivian R1T review: new electric pickup truck driven

There aren’t many electric full size pickups on sale today, but Rivian has stepped up to plug this gap in the market with its revolutionary new R1T.

www.carwow.co.uk

That thing looks horrible. On looks alone it’s not for me.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

That thing looks horrible. On looks alone it’s not for me.

It's a beauty contestant compared to the Tesla CyberTruck imho

I could live with the R1T .....


.... If only it wasn't all controlled from touch screens. That is just stupid imho.

 

[HatsOff]

The manufacturing of vehicles is the biggest environmental impact by miles. Just the amount of water used to paint cars is off the scale.

That doesn't sound right to me. Vehicles burn thousands of gallons of fuel over their lifetime, most of which ends up as heat and noise.

This article reckons the energy required to build a car is about 30 tank full of fuel. Less than a years worth of fuel.

How Much Energy Does It Take to Build a Car?

Thousands of cars are built every day. So as we move into an era of environmental awareness and energy efficiency, let's try to estimate just how much energy is used to build a car.

www.motorbiscuit.com

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

That doesn't sound right to me. Vehicles burn thousands of gallons of fuel over their lifetime, most of which ends up as heat and noise.

This article reckons the energy required to build a car is about 30 tank full of fuel. Less than a years worth of fuel.

How Much Energy Does It Take to Build a Car?

Thousands of cars are built every day. So as we move into an era of environmental awareness and energy efficiency, let's try to estimate just how much energy is used to build a car.

www.motorbiscuit.com

30 tank fulls is 3 to 4 years here.....

 

[Poorbuthappy]

30 tank fulls is 3 to 4 years here.....

Wait til you live in the middle of nowhere and it's a tank full just for the weekly shop