Electric cars

[glasshouse]

Just look offshore at the moment anything less than 8MW is now a baby.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/vestas-unveils-worlds-first-10-mw-wind-turbine-19385/

Do they not put them on land?

 

[ollie989898]

To expand (mathematically) @MX7 on John's lovely link there - take the CO2 grams / kWh figure and multiply it by the kWh/mile for an average EV.

To save you googling it - I can tell you mine, last week was an average of around 0.33 kWh/mile (that's not particularly stellar, but its a decent working average on a mix of A-road, back road and town driving in a pretty big car).

...by my calculations using John's figure for the UK grid that is 344g x 0.33 = 114g of CO2 / mile. I can usually better that figure, to less than 0.28 kWh/mile so around 96g of CO2 per mile.

Now if we were in cheese-eating-surrender-monkey-land with a grid output of 27g/kWh instead of 344g.....well

Thanks to nuclear power...

 

[Scribus]

Not really Lion batteries decay far more rapidly than Lifepo4 batteries and with faster recharge and more recharge cycles they start to look far better. Plus Lifepo4 dont have the same dramatic combustion problems if involved in an accident. Its why buses and trucks are predominately Lifepo4.

So let's get this straight. After many unsubstantiated claims from yourself that better batteries are being developed by a whole raft of car companies you dig up the lithium iron battery which has been around for almost as long as the lithium-nickel-cobalt type but still has a lower energy density ensuring a shorter range!

You lads are away with the fairies.

 

[renewablejohn]

Do they not put them on land?

Impossible to get planning permission for that scale on land but a spec on the horizon people are happy with.

 

[renewablejohn]

So let's get this straight. After many unsubstantiated claims from yourself that better batteries are being developed by a whole raft of car companies you dig up the lithium iron battery which has been around for almost as long as the lithium-nickel-cobalt type but still has a lower energy density ensuring a shorter range!

You lads are away with the fairies.

No you keep thumping on about all the nasty chemicals in Lithium batteries whilst ranting on about Cobalt making out all Lithium batteries used for EV's contain Cobalt when in fact thats not true. Most buses and trucks use Lifepo4 batteries which contain no Cobalt whatsoever. As for energy density thats just a red herring as Lifepo4 do not decay the same as Lion batteries and being lighter just take up more volume. Whats this hang up with range I never fill my tank up just put in either 20 or 30 pound at a time so whats the difference. As for other battery technologies there already out there your just not willing to do your own research to understand them and realise which type each manufacturer is going to adopt.

 

[renewablejohn]

Thanks to nuclear power...

Not quite if you actually look at the figures the myth of France being totally nuclear is exploded with 23% renewables which I would say is quite substantial really given a decade ago nuclear was over 90%.

 

[ollie989898]

Not quite if you actually look at the figures the myth of France being totally nuclear is exploded with 23% renewables which I would say is quite substantial really given a decade ago nuclear was over 90%.

Myth.

They run on hydroelectric and nuclear. Not your beloved crap.

 

[renewablejohn]

Myth.

They run on hydroelectric and nuclear. Not your beloved crap.

Sorry but hydroelectric is all part of my beloved crap as you call it.

 

[ollie989898]

Sorry but hydroelectric is all part of my beloved crap as you call it.

It's a world away from wind or solar as you well know.

 

[Stuart J]

It's a world away from wind or solar as you well know.

It's certainly renewable though.

 

[suffolksmallholder]

Best for what?

There is a subsidy which which helps you buy a new EV which has the following consequences -

The earth is ravaged for more metals and minerals required for the battery.
Children are kept employed down the cobalt mines in the Congo*
Communist China has an interest/control in 80% of the lithium market
EV's will usher in vehicle tracking and other invasions of you privacy.
EV's have the potential to grant the state far greater control over your travel
Money used to subsidise those who can afford a new car (welfare for the wealthy) is taken from needier causes.
Heavier EV's do more damage to the road.
Your tyres will wear out quicker
You will be taking a step backwards to the inconvenience of the horse and cart.
You will not be reducing the carbon footprint over a standard car for approx 25,000 miles
You are creating a battery disposal problem further down the line.
You will be purchasing a car with a life dictated by the battery, ie, shorter than standard cars.
The battery will lose range with age and use (would you buy a standard car with a shrinking tank?)
Running costs will eventually rise to match standard cars, the government knows what we are willing to pay for travel and will tax them accordingly.


At the end of the day the idea that battery cars are in anyway green or better for the environment is laughable, especially when you consider other alternatives to fossil fuels. As noted on another thread, California may be turning away from fossil fuels but electric vehicles are not the preferred choice, instead, bio diesel is the clear favourite.

*https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cobalt...cratic-republic-congo-cbs-news-investigation/

I don't want to read the whole of this thread but my son has the similar view to the above and I respect that. With ever increasing technology put into the modern petrol/diesel engine will far outweigh the battery vehicle in every aspect. I was once a big electric fan and perhaps it is the best vehicle in city environments apart from blanket banning of any internal combustion engine within certain city limits, ah, yes there is the argument for transporting goods, but the principal remains and we can overcome this I'm sure. The best thing to look to is less working hours, more public transport and keep your old banger going for 25 years at least then recycle it!
There's probably a graph of 'perfect' running costs on when to buy a second-hand electric vehicle and when to sell it and I'd imagine that window is quite small.
SS

 

[Cowabunga]

No you keep thumping on about all the nasty chemicals in Lithium batteries whilst ranting on about Cobalt making out all Lithium batteries used for EV's contain Cobalt when in fact thats not true. Most buses and trucks use Lifepo4 batteries which contain no Cobalt whatsoever. As for energy density thats just a red herring as Lifepo4 do not decay the same as Lion batteries and being lighter just take up more volume. Whats this hang up with range I never fill my tank up just put in either 20 or 30 pound at a time so whats the difference. As for other battery technologies there already out there your just not willing to do your own research to understand them and realise which type each manufacturer is going to adopt.

The Chinese seem to be putting a big brake on electric cars, starting very soon, possibly in favour of hydrogen in one form or another. The reason being, apparently, because of the solution and pollutants released to produce batteries and motors and the probably future pollution due to their disposal.

Watch this space. Electric cars have a lot of obstacles in their way that are yet to make themselves known in Europe.

 

[renewablejohn]

I don't want to read the whole of this thread but my son has the similar view to the above and I respect that. With ever increasing technology put into the modern petrol/diesel engine will far outweigh the battery vehicle in every aspect. I was once a big electric fan and perhaps it is the best vehicle in city environments apart from blanket banning of any internal combustion engine within certain city limits, ah, yes there is the argument for transporting goods, but the principal remains and we can overcome this I'm sure. The best thing to look to is less working hours, more public transport and keep your old banger going for 25 years at least then recycle it!
There's probably a graph of 'perfect' running costs on when to buy a second-hand electric vehicle and when to sell it and I'd imagine that window is quite small.
SS

Its a shame you have not read the other 32 pages as you would have seen a lot of these myths have been well and truly busted.

 

[renewablejohn]

The Chinese seem to be putting a big brake on electric cars, starting very soon, possibly in favour of hydrogen in one form or another. The reason being, apparently, because of the solution and pollutants released to produce batteries and motors and the probably future pollution due to their disposal.

Watch this space. Electric cars have a lot of obstacles in their way that are yet to make themselves known in Europe.

I would agree with the chinese putting a brake on electic cars using Lithium batteries as the dirty batteries are replaced with cleaner less volatile alternatives.

 

[Cowabunga]

I would agree with the chinese putting a brake on electic cars using Lithium batteries as the dirty batteries are replaced with cleaner less volatile alternatives.

They are reducing or removing subsidies on all electric cars.

 

[Scribus]

No you keep thumping on about all the nasty chemicals in Lithium batteries whilst ranting on about Cobalt making out all Lithium batteries used for EV's contain Cobalt when in fact thats not true. Most buses and trucks use Lifepo4 batteries which contain no Cobalt whatsoever. As for energy density thats just a red herring as Lifepo4 do not decay the same as Lion batteries and being lighter just take up more volume. Whats this hang up with range I never fill my tank up just put in either 20 or 30 pound at a time so whats the difference. As for other battery technologies there already out there your just not willing to do your own research to understand them and realise which type each manufacturer is going to adopt.

What I have actually said is that the best batteries use cobalt, not all of them. One of your little fibs again.

 

[Scribus]

Its a shame you have not read the other 32 pages as you would have seen a lot of these myths have been well and truly busted.

Indeed, electric cars have been exposed for the scam they are.

 

[Mr Mackay]

Electric tractors ?

 

[Scribus]

Electric tractors ?

Cables are a bother and I think it was Fendt who said batteries are just not up to it.

 

[ollie989898]

The Chinese will invent the alternative technologies that get mmankind out of the carbon age.