electric! help please!

TheTallGuy

Member
Location
Cambridgeshire
I take your point but as far as I am aware no fuses to houses are above 100 amp, and there are big 5 or 6 bed houses being built with 3 bathrooms etc etc, the installers dont really have an option and blowing main fuses is not really heard of.
It is possible (although difficult) to get over 100A, or three-phase domestically & with the push to move away from gas and increase electric vehicles it's going to become more of an issue. Few properties currently have 3+ electric showers, although again it's happening more as they're seen as an easy option & lots of sparks will just bang in a supply without question. The last DNO guy I chatted to said he was doing several blown fuse changes a week - mostly 60A & 80A, but 100A as well.
 

Lincsman

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
It is possible (although difficult) to get over 100A, or three-phase domestically & with the push to move away from gas and increase electric vehicles it's going to become more of an issue. Few properties currently have 3+ electric showers, although again it's happening more as they're seen as an easy option & lots of sparks will just bang in a supply without question. The last DNO guy I chatted to said he was doing several blown fuse changes a week - mostly 60A & 80A, but 100A as well.
My Grainstore supply blew one a few years ago, he put it down to being "tired" after being in since 1965, wouldnt renew the other two though as a precaution.
 

Highland Mule

Member
Livestock Farmer
Why? are they to be banned? (most are 10 or 11kw now to get the flow) with gas boilers being banned in future surely its only electric left, possibly big tanks and immersions.

Because instant heating of water gives poor flow - even at 11kW - and it’s better to use a steady trickle of power to heat the water. Thermal store from solar is good, either PV or direct solar. Even using a heat pump to charge the thermal store would spread the duty over a longer period of time.
 

scottrac

Member
Location
lincolnshire
update!!
ok well apparently to get my supply to meter better they are going to run a 3 phase cable to the pole opposite my drive (across a single track dead end road) but not change the cable to my meter. free of charge.
if i want more power they will have to move the tranformer closer at a cost of £30k to me.
Told my sparky this and he said ask them how much for 3 phase to meter?
Just got off the phone with them and he said as its not there yet he cant quote but would be looking at about £2k!!!!!
I don't think it will be as although its only 5 meters its under the road :banghead: He said wait till they have done it to the pole then ring him for a quote.
Obviously if hes anywhere near with his quote i'll get 3 phase but not counting my chickens yet.
 

TheTallGuy

Member
Location
Cambridgeshire
update!!
ok well apparently to get my supply to meter better they are going to run a 3 phase cable to the pole opposite my drive (across a single track dead end road) but not change the cable to my meter. free of charge.
if i want more power they will have to move the tranformer closer at a cost of £30k to me.
Told my sparky this and he said ask them how much for 3 phase to meter?
Just got off the phone with them and he said as its not there yet he cant quote but would be looking at about £2k!!!!!
I don't think it will be as although its only 5 meters its under the road :banghead: He said wait till they have done it to the pole then ring him for a quote.
Obviously if hes anywhere near with his quote i'll get 3 phase but not counting my chickens yet.
My guess would be ~£5-10k. Even though they are bringing three phase up, there's no guarantee that there will be capacity available at the transformer to make use of it.
 

scottrac

Member
Location
lincolnshire
My guess would be ~£5-10k. Even though they are bringing three phase up, there's no guarantee that there will be capacity available at the transformer to make use of it.
thats what i was thinking but northern power said i could always run 3 phase down drive but use the single phases to power different things,like 1 phase for house,1 for workshop and barns and 1 for extension?
 

TheTallGuy

Member
Location
Cambridgeshire
thats what i was thinking but northern power said i could always run 3 phase down drive but use the single phases to power different things,like 1 phase for house,1 for workshop and barns and 1 for extension?
Yes, that's quite a common approach, although it's usually worth having a three phase socket somewhere convenient too!
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
Yes, that's quite a common approach, although it's usually worth having a three phase socket somewhere convenient too!
I know this is a common solution to this type of problem, and this is totally off topic, just purely out of interest, how does it work on the neutral side? Surely if you are gaining more amperage in total from the 3 phases than you could take from one, you would need a larger neutral return?
 

TheTallGuy

Member
Location
Cambridgeshire
I know this is a common solution to this type of problem, and this is totally off topic, just purely out of interest, how does it work on the neutral side? Surely if you are gaining more amperage in total from the 3 phases than you could take from one, you would need a larger neutral return?
Without being too technical... The three phases are out of phase with each other, when phase 1 live is positive, then other two phases have negative voltages with respect to neutral. If there's a load on either or both of the other phases then the current will tend to flow through those loads where possible rather than via neutral. When phase 2 goes positive, phases 1&3 are negative and then when phase 3 is positive, phase 1&2 are negative. The worst possible scenario is one phase fully loaded because there is no route except via neutral - this can cause other issues in the system, which is why it is considered good practice to spread loads as evenly as possible over the three phases.
 

Mur Huwcun

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
North West Wales
With all this emphasis going on electric cars and getting rid of oil and gas will a three phase connection become more available or more common or even more affordable. Only way I can see houses being able to run ASHP/GSHP and charge two or three cars. Maybe just maybe that now is the time to buy a few three phase drills, welders, punches etc etc 😂😂😂😂
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
With all this emphasis going on electric cars and getting rid of oil and gas will a three phase connection become more available or more common or even more affordable. Only way I can see houses being able to run ASHP/GSHP and charge two or three cars. Maybe just maybe that now is the time to buy a few three phase drills, welders, punches etc etc 😂😂😂😂
It has certainly not been thought out any better than, PPE provision pre pandemic.
 

scottrac

Member
Location
lincolnshire
bit of an update!
still waiting for electric board but they are at least on with the job (surveying poles etc) and keeping me posted.
got a new larger water connection being installed aswell,
I was going to renew the phone line while i'm at it but does anyone know if i can lay the phone line in the bt duct and lay it with a rope through so if one day fibre comes to the village i can run it through?
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
bit of an update!
still waiting for electric board but they are at least on with the job (surveying poles etc) and keeping me posted.
got a new larger water connection being installed aswell,
I was going to renew the phone line while i'm at it but does anyone know if i can lay the phone line in the bt duct and lay it with a rope through so if one day fibre comes to the village i can run it through?
I am no expert on phones, but my fibre ends at the little green box just up the road and is copper for the last 2-300 yards.
This goves me a very acceptable 70-80 Mgb ( i think that is the term)
As for the duct, if there is a cable already in it then you can use that to pull the new one through. Otherwise as you say leave a string or cord in it, but there is alawas the danger that if you ttry pulling a second cable in to a duct , they can become entwined and jam.
I am told if you put a small ball on the end of the new cable coming through that will prevent it, we are about to do this, so hope they are right
 

Highland Mule

Member
Livestock Farmer
I’ve read that you can also blow a new cable through without a draw rope. Stick a bag or sponge in the end of the duct with a thin string attached and fire up a road compressor to give it a shove.
 

Lincsman

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
I’ve read that you can also blow a new cable through without a draw rope. Stick a bag or sponge in the end of the duct with a thin string attached and fire up a road compressor to give it a shove.
The common new site method is a plastic bottle thats a good fit, way quicker than feeding rope in pipes as you lay them.

In answer to the op, putting a duct in wont do any harm and could well be useful at some point.
 

TheTallGuy

Member
Location
Cambridgeshire
bit of an update!
still waiting for electric board but they are at least on with the job (surveying poles etc) and keeping me posted.
got a new larger water connection being installed aswell,
I was going to renew the phone line while i'm at it but does anyone know if i can lay the phone line in the bt duct and lay it with a rope through so if one day fibre comes to the village i can run it through?
It's not strictly necessary as the duct will be relatively empty & it's usually pretty easy to feed a new cable in with a dolly, but I work on the principle of leaving a draw rope or string in rarely hurts.
I am no expert on phones, but my fibre ends at the little green box just up the road and is copper for the last 2-300 yards.
This goves me a very acceptable 70-80 Mgb ( i think that is the term)
As for the duct, if there is a cable already in it then you can use that to pull the new one through. Otherwise as you say leave a string or cord in it, but there is alawas the danger that if you ttry pulling a second cable in to a duct , they can become entwined and jam.
I am told if you put a small ball on the end of the new cable coming through that will prevent it, we are about to do this, so hope they are right
There's a bit of a push towards fibre to the premises & with rural premises it can often be the better option as the distance to the nearest cabinet and the loading on the box can make for poor performance.
 

harrow

Member
I’ve read that you can also blow a new cable through without a draw rope. Stick a bag or sponge in the end of the duct with a thin string attached and fire up a road compressor to give it a shove.
Yes I know the civils used to do this 50 years ago rather than thread a rope through the duct, but if the was a dip flooded with water it got stuck and they had to dig it up again. :rolleyes:
 

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